California - Northern

[capayvalleychick]

Do you have any brand names that spinosad is sold as?

I bought captain jacks dead bug brew:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VJBYMC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00

I am way behind on this thread, but I have some important information regarding the use of Spinosad. Please read this entire post. I'm concerned about this product being used incorrectly, which will cause it to no longer be effective.
Here is information on the label of the Spinosad product that I use - regarding Integrated Pest and Resistance Management.
APPLY ONLY ACCORDING TO LABEL. DO NOT USE LESS THAN THE LABELED RATE OF ANY INSECT CONTROL PRODUCT.

Resistance to insect control products is a real concern in CA and elsewhere. UCDavis has reported that "Northern fowl mite is known to
be resistant to both carbaryl and malathion in some parts of California." Carbaryl is Sevin.

I had a horrible infestation of mites last year. I found that they were even resistant to permethrin products. I spent months spraying and washing coops and birds, over and over again. Nothing was working. I finally found Elector PSP, which is a concentrated form of 44.2% Spinosad. This brand, made by Elanco, is labeled for use on chickens and for use for elimination of the northern fowl mite.
Some people, understandably, are trying to find spinosad at a lower price. So they use garden sprays containing spinosad, like Captain Jack's. The problem with this is that the amount of spinosad in these garden sprays is MUCH lower. Captain Jack's is only .15-.5% spinosad. It's also NOT labeled for use on chickens and not for control of northern fowl mites. That means that the directions don't apply to use on chickens for mites.
These less expensive, diluted forms of spinosad may work for a short time - but using less than the recommended effective amount of a pesticide will lead to resistance very quickly.
Using these cheaper garden spray spinosad products will cause the mites to become resistant to spinosad.

I'm concerned about this because of the amount of work and expense I spent, last year, dealing with pesticides that had become ineffective due to over or misuse. Yes, the Elector is very expensive. I don't even have a regular income, so I can't afford to waste money. But, I bought this product because it works and it's made for mite control on chickens. Elanco did the research on chickens and mites to find out what works for them. The garden spray spinosad was developed for use on other insects on plants.

Some people may not realize that Elector is a concentrate. 3 oz makes 10 gallons. So, it lasts a long time. You don't use much. You also only have to apply it to the vent. Make sure the skin is saturated around the vent. You don't have to spray their wings etc. You only have to give them one application for it to work. So, you use less product than with other sprays. You do have to spray the roosts and coop to make sure you get any mites in the environment. Again, one treatment works.

Please share this information, whenever the subject of spinosad comes up. If you can't afford a form of spinosad that is labeled for use on chickens for fowl mites, please use something else. Otherwise, you are contributing to the development of mites becoming resistant to spinosad by giving them small doses. I don't want that to happen. Spending months treating over 100 chickens over and over again is brutal.
Thank you.

 

[ronott1]

I am way behind on this thread, but I have some important information regarding the use of Spinosad. Please read this entire post. I'm concerned about this product being used incorrectly, which will cause it to no longer be effective.
Here is information on the label of the Spinosad product that I use - regarding Integrated Pest and Resistance Management.
APPLY ONLY ACCORDING TO LABEL. DO NOT USE LESS THAN THE LABELED RATE OF ANY INSECT CONTROL PRODUCT.

Resistance to insect control products is a real concern in CA and elsewhere. UCDavis has reported that "Northern fowl mite is known to
be resistant to both carbaryl and malathion in some parts of California." Carbaryl is Sevin.

I had a horrible infestation of mites last year. I found that they were even resistant to permethrin products. I spent months spraying and washing coops and birds, over and over again. Nothing was working. I finally found Elector PSP, which is a concentrated form of 44.2% Spinosad. This brand, made by Elanco, is labeled for use on chickens and for use for elimination of the northern fowl mite.
Some people, understandably, are trying to find spinosad at a lower price. So they use garden sprays containing spinosad, like Captain Jack's. The problem with this is that the amount of spinosad in these garden sprays is MUCH lower. Captain Jack's is only .15-.5% spinosad. It's also NOT labeled for use on chickens and not for control of northern fowl mites. That means that the directions don't apply to use on chickens for mites.
These less expensive, diluted forms of spinosad may work for a short time - but using less than the recommended effective amount of a pesticide will lead to resistance very quickly.
Using these cheaper garden spray spinosad products will cause the mites to become resistant to spinosad.

I'm concerned about this because of the amount of work and expense I spent, last year, dealing with pesticides that had become ineffective due to over or misuse. Yes, the Elector is very expensive. I don't even have a regular income, so I can't afford to waste money. But, I bought this product because it works and it's made for mite control on chickens. Elanco did the research on chickens and mites to find out what works for them. The garden spray spinosad was developed for use on other insects on plants.

Some people may not realize that Elector is a concentrate. 3 oz makes 10 gallons. So, it lasts a long time. You don't use much. You also only have to apply it to the vent. Make sure the skin is saturated around the vent. You don't have to spray their wings etc. You only have to give them one application for it to work. So, you use less product than with other sprays. You do have to spray the roosts and coop to make sure you get any mites in the environment. Again, one treatment works.

Please share this information, whenever the subject of spinosad comes up. If you can't afford a form of spinosad that is labeled for use on chickens for fowl mites, please use something else. Otherwise, you are contributing to the development of mites becoming resistant to spinosad by giving them small doses. I don't want that to happen. Spending months treating over 100 chickens over and over again is brutal.
Thank you.

Thanks for the information!


What I take away from the information is that the company that made (Elanko?) wants to protect their investment in getting their product certified.

We should be fine with other spinosad formulas as long as the concentration is correct.

Maybe @casportpony can figure out the amount to use for dilution?

It will not matter for resistance though. If a person only used spinosad, resistance will happen.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Quote: This has nothing to do with the company wanting to protect their investment. I don't care what brand you use, as long as you use the correct amount to kill mites without contributing to resistance. Here is a quote from an IPM site.

Using rates lower than those recommended for a particular pest favors survival of the stronger individuals in the pest population.

How do you know, when you are using a garden spray for insects on plants, that you are using the proper dilution?

There's a difference of .15-.5% which gets diluted in a garden spray- with 44.2% in the spray (again to be diluted) which has been designed and tested for use against mites on chickens. There's a huge difference between the amounts .5% and 44.2%.

 

[Audio51]

Quote: I will be sending of a very young juvenile this morning for necropsy. I have lost 4 of 5 four week old Bresse chicks in the last week. They are out in the coop with the rest of the flock and their broody hen. They just start to look "off" and not as active, Then they start standing in one spot with eyes closed and breathing hard. I bring them in to a hospital cage and the breathing gets more labored with a little bit of fluid from the nose then they die. I found #4 on it's side this morning and thought it was dead, but it is hanging on. I have a shipping box ready to go and will tk it to FedEx as soon as I can...

Quote: I had a horrible infestation of mites last year. I found that they were even resistant to permethrin products. I spent months spraying and washing coops and birds, over and over again. Nothing was working. I finally found Elector PSP, which is a concentrated form of 44.2% Spinosad. This brand, made by Elanco, is labeled for use on chickens and for use for elimination of the northern fowl mite.
Some people, understandably, are trying to find spinosad at a lower price. So they use garden sprays containing spinosad, like Captain Jack's. The problem with this is that the amount of spinosad in these garden sprays is MUCH lower. Captain Jack's is only .15-.5% spinosad. It's also NOT labeled for use on chickens and not for control of northern fowl mites. That means that the directions don't apply to use on chickens for mites.
These less expensive, diluted forms of spinosad may work for a short time - but using less than the recommended effective amount of a pesticide will lead to resistance very quickly.
Using these cheaper garden spray spinosad products will cause the mites to become resistant to spinosad.

I'm concerned about this because of the amount of work and expense I spent, last year, dealing with pesticides that had become ineffective due to over or misuse. Yes, the Elector is very expensive. I don't even have a regular income, so I can't afford to waste money. But, I bought this product because it works and it's made for mite control on chickens. Elanco did the research on chickens and mites to find out what works for them. The garden spray spinosad was developed for use on other insects on plants.

Some people may not realize that Elector is a concentrate. 3 oz makes 10 gallons. So, it lasts a long time. You don't use much. You also only have to apply it to the vent. Make sure the skin is saturated around the vent. You don't have to spray their wings etc. You only have to give them one application for it to work. So, you use less product than with other sprays. You do have to spray the roosts and coop to make sure you get any mites in the environment. Again, one treatment works.

Please share this information, whenever the subject of spinosad comes up. If you can't afford a form of spinosad that is labeled for use on chickens for fowl mites, please use something else. Otherwise, you are contributing to the development of mites becoming resistant to spinosad by giving them small doses. I don't want that to happen. Spending months treating over 100 chickens over and over again is brutal.
Thank you.
Good information! I have had a problem with mites a few weeks ago and treated everyone with Poultry dust and fipronil spray. I only had one that seem severely infested with lots of eggs around the vent. I just finished the new coop and sprayed everything before moving them in. A few of my 6 week old (at the time) Marans chicks were looking like naked necks and I wasn't sure if that was why, but within a few days of treating everyone I noticed new feathers coming in and they look much better now. May have been a coincidence in timing and they may have just been molting out the last of the down in that area. I never saw any bugs on them though. I am thinking I may go this way and get some spinosad

 

[h2oratt]

The lymph stuff is from an infection and is not cancer. It does not say cancer. We often call that swollen glands. The lymph system is the main infection defense system.

They both died from an infection. Egg yolk peritonitis is what a lot of us call it.

Hen b it's says had adenocarcinoma. Is this DX Different in poultry? My understanding it's cancer.
adenocarcinoma (A-deh-noh-KAR-sih-NOH-muh)l
Cancer that begins in glandular (secretory) cells. Glandular cells are found in tissue that lines certain internal organs and makes and releases substances in the body, such as mucus, digestive juices, or other fluids. Most cancers of the breast, pancreas, lung, prostate, and colon are adenocarcinomas.

 

[Mr Beaks]

I think the report was pretty clear. One chicken had cancer. One chicken had an infection in it body cavity. I think it's great to know why they were sick. It helps you know if you could have helped them it also could help you with future illness in your chickens.

The lymph stuff is from an infection and is not cancer. It does not say cancer. We often call that swollen glands. The lymph system is the main infection defense system.

They both died from an infection. Egg yolk peritonitis is what a lot of us call it.

Adenocarcinoma is cancer

 

[caychris]

Adenocarcinoma is cancer

I think the intent of the comment was that it wasnt Mareks Cancer?

 

[Torch404]

Can't figure out how to delete this, sorry

 

[h2oratt]

I think the intent of the comment was that it wasnt Mareks Cancer?

I didn't know mareks disease was cancer.
Guess I should read up.

 

[caychris]

Well most of us mid staters (SF Bay Area) would rather be associated with the North and Southern CA. (And we are north of them)