can adult chickens be vaccinated for marek's?

[seminolewind]

Chickat, thanks for the link to the Marek's page!

SpeckledHen has had no problem because she has a closed flock-only day olds from a hatchery or eggs hatched on her property. Lucky her!

 

[leadwolf1]

I am under the impression that both necropsy and cultures were performed since that is what I was waiting for, the cultures to be read. I just took my 3rd bird in today for necropsy. Whenever someone dies that doesn't fit my 'norm', I necropsy. This was a 17 week old vaccinated bantam phoenix roo. He presented with mild symptoms of Coccidiosis. Hunched, tail down..just 'off' looking. I started treatment immediately. He was eating and drinking, foraging with his buddies. Less than 24 hours later I found him dead in his pen. No external Marek's symptoms. This is unusual for a bird of that age. Normally, they present with the paralysis.

Wild turkeys, I would not be concerned with..unless, I had turkeys. Wild birds is a consideration. I originally thought that is where mine came from. However, my original death was in a 9 week old silkie. I don't think they were around enough wild birds at that age..they were brooded in my kitchen..for that to be a factor. Of course, no one will come forward and admit that I got the disease from their flock. No one wants that stigma placed upon them. So, I continue to try and find out where it came from. I still have my thoughts...

Apparently, it is said that the tumors are the actual cause of death. The paralysis, minus the tumors, is not deadly. If the tumors do not form in vaccinated birds then, the paralysis must be killing my vaccinated birds. The paralysis can lead to respiratory failure and can also lead to crop and intestinal failure. I would think that would be enough to make the disease deadly without the tumors. Again, that is only MHO and what I have seen within my own flock.

According to the hatcheries that I have contacted, they have a vaccine that is made up of all three known strains of Marek's. The one that is commonly sold is only made up from one strain. Huge hatcheries work closely with the universities..I know that Ideal works directly with Texas A&M. This was verified through an email from Ideal. They vaccinate with the strains that the university recommends.

If there is no confirmed cases of Marek's in a flock, I would say that a 14 day isolation period would be good. If there is Marek's in the flock...I would go as far as saying a 6 month isolation would be preferred. It isn't practical but, after what I have seen, I would say it's the safest. I lost vaccinated pullets after a 12 week isolation. The longer the better is the safest way to go.

I have given boosters. Funny this with the boosters is it seems to cause negative effects. 8 -12 weeks after the booster, I had a rash of casualties...it could be coincidence. I am afraid to try it again in case it isn't.

I am going to be trying to gleen any info I can from the poultry specialist when she calls. I will post here any info that I can get. I truly believe that I am working with a mutated Marek's strain and there is, at present, no vaccine to cover it. It is the only thing that makes sense.

 

[ChicKat]

leadwolf1

so sorry to hear what you continue to go through and so sorry about your losses. Thank you for continuing to dig to the bottom of what is happening. You are helping the rest of us raise our awareness.

 

[speckledhen]

I only added the direct link to the article as I had seen it was alluded to, but not linked to in the thread-sorry if I missed that. I did look for it throughout the thread before I posted it. Just thought for the sake of convenience it should be included for you all.

I think that, as with many other diseases, there is a textbook version and then there are ways they present in the experience of the owners that may not exactly follow that textbook list of symptoms or age of presentation, etc.

I also noted that I do not have personal experience with Mareks, and generally, Karen is correct, I do have a closed flock, only in all these years having added two started birds that were not direct from a hatchery shipment: one was Hawkeye, a 10 month old McMurray rooster I bought from an FFA kid, and one was an 8 week old EE pullet given as a gift by a friend who hatched her from eggs purchased from a breeder working on a new Ameraucana color. This friend had never had any illness in her flocks, previously having had only chicks directly from McMurray or given to her by me from my clean flock.

I do not own turkeys, as someone brought up in reference to my flock being Marek's-free.

I would bow to seminolewind or leadwolf1's knowledge of Mareks if I had to research it beyond just some anonymous internet source and wanted firsthand accounts, just as many seem to contact me or terryg when they suspect internal laying and/or egg yolk peritionitis. Nothing is a substitute for the vast experience of a chicken keeper over a period of years with one particular ailment/disease, IMO.

 

[ChicKat]

This was posted awhile back by Suzierd

http://www.naturalnews.com/037045_vaccines_super_viruses_mutant_strains.html

It does not represent Marek's mutation. seems like I had read of another virus problem in Australia...but perhaps it was this one...I thought it was Marek's. In the USA and in the UK they use different live virus for Marek's....... somehow I had thought that Aust. got both UK and USA vaccines and the two were combined into a super bug. ---

 

[leadwolf1]

The Poultry Magazine
Vol 3 Iss 8 Jul/Aug 2012

The article on Marek's in this magazine was the best that I have read. There were a few items that I didn't agree with but, overall it was very well written with more up-to-date information then I've seen. In this article, she also feels that the Marek's virus is mutating and that the vaccine is becoming ineffective. She also says that breeding for resistance is going to be the only way to protect your flock. It was really a good article. I wish there was a way to share it.

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

I think by some of your statements that you are confusing myself and seminolewind. You didn't ask me for references. I merely started my comment with a disclaimer in case you wanted one.

I have never illuded to the fact that the vaccine could be dangerous to other chickens. If you read all of my statements, I believe that you will find that to be true. I have asked for opinions on that very subject since I cannot pinpoint where the original infection came from in my flock. I thought that I knew but, now I'm reading things that disagree. I was floored when I read that this could happen. I was distraught thinking that I had brought this on myself by bringing vaccinated chicks in with my nonvaccinated chicks. However, it stands to reason that if that were the case, my vaccinated chicks would be safe. That is far from the truth.

Since I am not the one that made the statements regarding the safety of the vaccine, I cannot provide you with that information. As, I, too, am seeking those same answers.

Right now, my primary source of information is the ongoing research that I am doing within my own flock. I have over 25 years of experience as a research scientist. I am using my own flock to gather the information that no one else can provide me with. Even the poultry specialist at the University is amazed at my losses. I have seen things inside my own flock that blows Merck's out of the water. One of which is the age issue.

I am very passionate about getting the message out that Marek's is in backyard flocks and it is spreading. To me, there must be a reason why I was 'blessed' with this disease.

Please, before you accuse someone of spreading 'rumors', it might be more beneficial to find out where the information has come from. It is never a good idea to jump first and ask questions later. Burying 40+ chickens in a year, all of which I can name and so can my two boys, makes a person very touchy about being accused of spreading falsehoods. When you see my name, know that what I say is something that I have experienced first hand. It is not something that I picked up off of the street. When I don't know, I will preface my comments with that fact...and when I need to ask questions, I will.

I plan on asking what the poultry specialists feels about the possibility of infection starting from vaccinated chicks in with unvaccinated chicks. This is something that I must know.

Leadwolf--you are right. It wasn't you. I was upset by a post from someone imploring people NOT to vaccinate for Marek's. Their statement was that the vaccine itself would cause chickens to begin to shed the virus, so that, in effect, you would be saving your birds but then giving the disease to everyone around you. That's just plain false.

I am sorry I got you mixed up. I've been spending a lot of time lately fighting some anti-vaccers who want to bring their unvaccinated kids into the school system, and they've got me flaming mad. So, when I saw someone say that vaccinating birds gives them the disease and causes them to give the disease to unvaccinated birds, I got mad. Forgive me, please.

I do plan to read the citations that everyone's provided. I wasn't kidding when I said that big, important stuff like this needs big, important research to back it up.

 

[Haunted55]

That sounds easy.

But our feed store sells the vaccine for $16. It has a lot of doses. However, the instructions say that once opened, the vaccine has to be given within one hour, AND in the first hour of the chicks life. My chicks can hatch 24-36 hours apart. Buying new vaccine for every hour is too expensive.

Is this true? or can I use the vaccine after the hour? (For both chick and opening the medicine?)

Let me chime in here....I am facing an order for vaccines [any I can find], for my hatching chicks, with a price tag of $188.24. I lost 60 birds this year to Marek's and it will never happen again. 24 in one day alone. Sound like fun? 45 of these birds that died were vaccinated at the hatchery. The 12 I got from TS, even though they said they were done, were not. I also had birds I had hatched in Feb., unvaccinated, stupid me, die as well. After what I've gone through this year the price is cheap as far as I am concerned, but please, let me continue.

The supplier I am using for these vaccines told me, since one of the vaccines is $97.49 by itself, that if I used a NEW needle to draw off EACH dose needed from the bottle and kept everything clean and sterile, the top of the bottle especially, there is no reason that the vaccine cannot be saved for the next need of it. Clean it with alcohol, cover it with plastic wrap and refrigerate the remains. The vaccine will be good until the expiration date on the bottle. I talked to the people at Pfizer as well and was told pretty much the same thing.

Let's just use something else to bring the point home. Do you think that at a doctor's office they open a new bottle of flue vaccine for every patient? How about the vaccines for kids? Not hardly, what most of us see is the nurse coming in with a full syringe. Did you ever think about where and from what they filled it?

For the Marek's vaccine all you would need to do is figure out how much you will need to take out of each bottle for the amount of chicks you will be doing and just mix that. Put the rest away.

 

[Haunted55]

The Poultry Magazine
Vol 3 Iss 8 Jul/Aug 2012

The article on Marek's in this magazine was the best that I have read. There were a few items that I didn't agree with but, overall it was very well written with more up-to-date information then I've seen. In this article, she also feels that the Marek's virus is mutating and that the vaccine is becoming ineffective. She also says that breeding for resistance is going to be the only way to protect your flock. It was really a good article. I wish there was a way to share it.

Unfortunately Leadwolf, I was unable to find the magazine after you told me about it. I did talk to some people at Pfizer and they also agree with the mutations taking place. This is why it is so darned important to immunize your birds!!! I just cannot say this enough. If you haven't walked in the shoes of the people who have seen this disease up close and personal, don't throw stones. I hope you never have to find out just how hard it is to have to kill bird after bird, while the tears are running down your face. Hoping you can get a 'clean' cut the first time.

 

[leadwolf1]

Haunted55...I agree with you on all points except for one. The Marek's vaccine is unlike any other. It is very unstable and it is also so touchy about the conditions it is used under that I would never mess with it. I wouldn't try and guess how much vaccine to mix with how much diluent. I just wouldn't. It is only 19.95 and, I use what I need and pitch it. I've reconstitued 1000 doses and only used 2. The other vaccines, I agree totally. They can be stored and used as needed up until the expiration date. With Marek's, the money isn't the issue, the best possible immunity is. That is just my opinion and I know that you will agree that we are both searching for a way to save our friends.