Can we possibly have blackhead AGAIN?

[SAHMof2]

In July I treated my turkeys with FishZole and then dewormed my entire flock (chickens and two turkeys) with Safeguard. As of yesterday my Tom is feeling unwell. Started out with runny poo and this a.m. under his roost is a LOT of mucusy yellow "stuff". Almost looks like an egg burst open.

I am sure I can treat him again with cayanne, fishzole and everything else I pulled out the last time but could we really really have it again!!

If it matters we processed the other tom yesterday and I had a good look at the intestines which all looked "normal" to me. The liver looked great and so did the gizzard. He too, before his demise, looked off.

The extra crappy thing is yesterday was the date I had to bring home my 6 new layers (20 weeks). The only place for them is in the coop with an area sectioned off with wire and boards. Guess I"ll be deworming those ready-to-lay hens in about 10 days?

As soon as the Tom is well he is going to a new forever home where he won't be running with chickens.

 

[Ksane]

I know it's important to re-worm 10 days after the initial worming to kill any possible worm eggs that hatched. Did you do that?
If not I'd get some Safeguard and do the whole group again and then also 10 days later. There's a dosage to add it to their drinking water but I don't know what the dose is.

 

[SAHMof2]

Thanks so much. I did. sigh....

Fishzole for turkeys for five days, 10 days later safeguard, 14 days later safeguard again. I thought I read it could be from 10 - 15 days later. Should the de-wormer last several months in warding off worms.

I *think* at this point I'm dealing with the protozoa in the turkey right?? Not the actual worm ... yet.

 

[Ksane]

The problem is the eggs can live in the soil for a looooong time. Not sure exactly how long, but close to a year if I remember correctly. And they pick up cecal worms (which is what causes blackhead) from earthworms, flies, bugs, you name it. If you've had a blackhead problem ever in the past I would make it habit once a month to put Panacur (aka safeguard aka fenbendazole) in their water. I'm looking for the dosage now, it's posted in quite a few places around here. You put a certain amount of Safeguard horse paste in water and shake it real well and then add that mixture to 1 gal of water and leave it for the day for all. I'll keep looking for the dosage, hopefully someone will jump in who knows it.
It does sound like that's what's going on with yours.
Here's one thing I have saved about it:

Cecal Worms
Symptoms: None
Cecal Worms are very common but don't do much damage however blackhead organisms can live in the worms eggs and cause blackhead many months later. Cecal worms infestations occurs directly by birds eating eggs that have been passed out in droppings following what is known as a direct life cycle.
This parasite apparently does not seriously affect the health of the bird. At least no marked symptoms or pathology can be blamed on its presence. Its main importance is that it has been incriminated as a vector of Histomonas meleagridis, the agent that causes blackhead. This protozoan parasite apparently is carried in the cecal worm egg and is transmitted from bird to bird through this egg.
The life cycle of this parasite is similar to that of the common roundworm. The eggs are produced in the ceca and pass in the feces. They reach the infective form in about two weeks. In cool weather, this may take longer. The eggs are very resistant to environmental conditions and will remain viable for long periods.
Treatment:
The cecal worm can be effectively treated with fenbendazole. Since the worm itself produces no observable damage and the eggs live for long periods, it is advisable and necessary to keep chickens and turkeys separated to prevent spread of blackhead.
Edit: I wouldn't separate turkey's from chickens, it's too easy for them to get it from other sources. I do, however, plan on worming once a month with Safeguard in all my birds water because I have 3 12 wk old turkeys. Right now I'm worming orally but that's a bit of a pain monthly.

 

[Ksane]

Here you go concerning Panacur/Safeguard/Fenbendazole-
At https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=288246 :
Ok, well the dosage is usually between 10mg and 50mg per kg of weight, depending on the percentage solution of the Panacur liquid, and it should be repeated 7 to 10 days later.
I dose my chickens (according to my vets instructions) with Panacur oral solution. The dosage is 10mg per kg body weight in chicken. You can either administer it directly via a syringe, or put it into their drinking water. If you're putting it in their drinking water, you need concentrations of 0.5 to 1ml Panacur oral solution per 1 litre of drinking water.

Also from Dawg53 at https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=4787599 I found this at I found this:
3cc/ml per gallon of water.

Dawg53 seems to be pretty smart about worming. I've read tons of his posts and always agree with what he says. I've looked different things up extensively that he's recommended and he's consistantly been right. I respect the guy although I've never talked with him

 

[ivan3]

Liver on harvested tom appeared normal.

Yellow dropping do NOT always indicate Histomoniasis.

I applaud your efforts in defense of your flock's health.

Save yourself time and money by sacrificing a bird and having a necroscopy (complete necroscopy - Univ. Vet. Path Lab pref. - call your State Vet. for suggestions on best place to have it done) performed.

This will let you know EXACTLY what you are dealing with. Without knowing for sure one ends up shotgunning with pellets of everything (you've already discharged a lot of time/effort/cash) instead of firing a single shot between the eyes (confirmed DX).

Regular worming with Valbazen (get all HM/HG vectors) is probably the least time consuming method of knocking down the potential for infestation/infection.

Good luck!

 

[SAHMof2]

Thank you so much everyone.

I have a bit of an update. This a.m. the turkey is eating which I haven't seen him do in 4 days. And he's chirping. I did however find what I"m sure was a long worm hanging from the perch among all the slim and green runny poo.

When I picked it up it was kind of plump but I accident punctured it and it became deflated. AFter pocking it more it clearly has a casing although I cannot find a "head".

Can anyone tell me what I should do next?

Even though I dewormed my entire flock two months ago (maybe I missed the dates by a few days and missed the next hatching). Deworm them AGAIN with safeguard? Should I sanitize the entire coop? What should I do about the run? Man o man this stinks.

p.s. I'm hoping the turkey will be gone soon once/if he gets to 100% again.

Thanks for any insight you might have regarding this worm and how it happened so soon after deworming and what to do next. sigh.

 

[al6517]

The most important thing to remember is Blackhead lives in the soil and can remain for extended periods, and if you are continuing to run them with chickens or in the close proxcimity they will always be suseptable, chickens are the carrier and it doesn't effect the chickens. They need to be seperated and placed on clean uninfected soil far away from the chickens then you might have a chance.

 

[Ksane]

It's usually not feasible to completely separate them from soil that chickens have 'touched', almost impossible. I would get some Safeguard that you can put in their water (or even better yet Valbazen) and on the 1st of every month I'd just add it to their water for the day. Not really difficult at all and it ensures the cecal worms that cause 'blackhead' are killed. Doing it on a specific day each month makes it easier to remember. I don't know what worm you found. But Valbazen will kill *all* worms. Safeguard/Fenbendazole will kill *all except tapeworms. It'd be just like giving dogs heartworm preventative, just once a month in that days water and you can quit worrying.

 

[SAHMof2]

I delighted to say that after 4 days of giving him Colodial Silver, which brought him to eating again and normal stool I gave him Metronidazole for four days and he is now eating, pooping, chirping and strutting. I am so delighted!

My questions are:

Should I now give him dewormer?

How soon after the Metronidazole should I be giving him the safeguard (I'd like to use up what I've got before searching for the other)?

Should I give it to all the chickens although they seem fine and I dewormed them 2.5 months ago?

It was suggested I put dewormer in their water the first of every month but with so much deworming we will never be able to eat their eggs right? Once he is 100% there will be no more turkeys in the run.

He is supposed to go to another home for the winter and live out his days free ranging and mating with hens. At what point should we take him? Right after the worming is complete?

Could he bring the disease to his new home?

I know I'm asking a lot. No vets around here deal with poultry so here I turn.

Thanks.