Can you please tell me Black Pete is awfull!

[Loopeend]

I need you guys.

I worked for (10?) years in an anti-discrimination NGO in the Netherlands; it was there; but also in the whole country, and still is, 365 days around; THE topic and what devides the whole country. Are you pro black-Pete or anti-black Pete? The whole year around they get in physcial!! fights! UURGH. Even in summer.

I never cared. Since allthought Dutch santa claus and his black Pete's only come 1 day; the amount of lying to your children as an society is way bigger then in the U.S. I never believed any of the stories of my parents what they made-up when I asked questions. I knew they were lying and the whole society; but when I asked; they treated me as an idiot and kept lieing. Untill the grand final; when they really could not get away with their lying (because school has an set age that it is told); making fun of you that you are so dumb that you allways believed it? NOT fond of for year long being lied to by the people you should trust the most, and making years of fun, again, albeit not neccesairy since I knew all along; by people I should be able to trust most. Dutch santa claus is never entering in my house. No matter what Black pete's or not. Not lying to my children and betraying their trust for "our adult entertainment". Like how Black Pete should entertain the children like a dumb jester; appareantly our dumb children are the true dumb jesters??

So I want anti black-Pete due to; don't care; hate the whole festivity.

It changed 5 years ago when a colleague, with family in the U.S.A; send something about how U.S.A. people thought about it. Seeing it through outsider eyes; made me realise; wow.. it IS racist. I knew it was racist; but thought the whole even was stupid anyway; but now really SAW. It truelly fuelled me; seeing how outsiders look at it.

I kind of want more of it. So I have better comebacks; when again, in the supermarket, or a colleague at my job.. starts a conversation "Aren't you also pro Black Pete? Those (bad word for people with more melotinyne in their skin) are so going to lose haha. Fricking (bad word). You feel me right? "SIIIIGH. I can only say something soft like "I don't like the Dutch santa claus fest"..

I would like some more pepper from outsiders to be able to reply.

Thank you.

 

[azygous]

Black Pete sounds like most of our American customs, observances, rituals, and beliefs, some of which are just as stupid and insensitive to minority groups as Black Pete. I'm not big on American cultural observances because most seem idiotic and make no sense when they are examined honestly.

That said, if you exist in a culture, you are going to be suspected of being a traitor to that culture if you go against what most observe and believe. That's because all societies require cohesiveness and thinking independently directly threatens that order, even if that order is based on faulty reasoning and idiotic notions.

What to do about it if you're a think-for-yourself individual? Have the courage to say, "No thanks, not for me, but you guys have at it if you feel the need." Maybe, just maybe, others will see that it's possible to answer to your own integrity and rise out of the ranks of the mindless and foolish.

 

[Chickassan]

The problem with being anti anything that disturbs human sensibility is that it disappears.
It sounds good but it isn't because you can't learn from something that is no longer there.
I shudder to think what has already been lost to the ages due to this mindset.

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

Before i start with my personal opinion: I am neither a racist at all, nor do i approve any kind of discrimination against any minority.
But: In my opinion that racist-card is being played out way too often and responding to any kind of challenge is in the end harming the minority itself!
Coming from a country with a bad anti-semitic history (to say the least!) makes me very sensitive and cautious to those topics.
For example i followed the activities of several groups to have any memories about the Confederated states removed from the public due to their support of slavery. But renaming the »Lee Middle School« to something else? It does not make sense in my opinion. Where would you stop? Renaming the City of Houston because Houston was representing Texas - a state with slavery? Where should this stop? If i remember correctly, George Washington was a slave-holder too, so renaming the capital?
Back to the »Zwarte Piet«: I think it is wrong to discontinue long traditions like that and imho even black people (is it correct to say "black people"?) should not feel offended by that tradition. I would use it as a reminder of what had been done wrong in the past and educate the younger generations.
Use. Common. Sense!

 

[Loopeend]

Black Pete sounds like most of our American customs, observances, rituals, and beliefs, some of which are just as stupid and insensitive to minority groups as Black Pete. I'm not big on American cultural observances because most seem idiotic and make no sense when they are examined honestly.

That said, if you exist in a culture, you are going to be suspected of being a traitor to that culture if you go against what most observe and believe. That's because all societies require cohesiveness and thinking independently directly threatens that order, even if that order is based on faulty reasoning and idiotic notions.

What to do about it if you're a think-for-yourself individual? Have the courage to say, "No thanks, not for me, but you guys have at it if you feel the need." Maybe, just maybe, others will see that it's possible to answer to your own integrity and rise out of the ranks of the mindless and foolish.

The weird thing is is; it's not even "culture/tradition". My grandparents and parents never had a santa claus with black pete's. They did not even have a santa claus at all. It was just a proccesion day for the holy saint Nicolas. That ripped his cape in two; to give a poor man the half of it. Black Pete became a thing after the 50's; when the economy was in a uprise. The same as in the U.S. kind off; the after-war years where in a short time wealth skyrocketed and U.S. santa claus became a mayor gift-giver. Most pro-Pete's calling it "culture/tradition" are between 30 and 50. And white angry lower-class men. It's not about black Peter for years now anymore. It's taken over by white supremacy; they saw a chance to sneaky use this to vent their true racism. Activaly attacking black people that are protesting against black Pete (there are also many white/asian/arabian people protesting against black Pete; but they pick the black ones out like cherry's to attack). They are riding on the backs of low-class hard workers that feel unheard for economic reasons; to rally them up for more racist stuff.

It's truely, for a long time now, not even about black Pete anymore. Some political party's just use it for their actual stuff. We have farmers protesing environment laws that would cull their existence every week; suddenly they also have "black Pete is not racism" slogans also? Builders the same. What on earth does that have anything to do with the original protests?

I truely think we can use more outsiders to tell us it's racist. So they get smothered down faster. It will die out eventually; black Pete in it's current form will be gone in the future, because most people over here are not white supremacist and start family's and befriend people with who-ever they love; skincolour not an issue.

 

[azygous]

When all is said and done, people do what they want to do and make excuses for why they must do it. While there's nothing wrong with observing traditions, it's naive to think that these traditions, by virtue of a culture observing them, cancels out harmful stereotypes or renders them harmless. For an example, look at the American sports teams named after native Americans. They still persist but are slowly being dismantled by raising public awareness after Indians speak out about how they feel about them.

The history of Black Pete incorporated black stereotypes originally to set up the same kind of "us vs them" dynamic to keep lower classes from revolting against upper class exploitation. The same thing is still happening in the USA now with the demonizing of immigrants with brown or black skin.

It then gets packaged into a quaint observance, St Nick and his dopey little black helper, and people glom onto it and refuse to give it up in spite of black folks admitting that this stereotype has always made them at least a bit uncomfortable.

It's stupid and yes, harmful. But when has that ever been a reason to make a culture give up a tradition? Maybe when enough people use their heads and give it some honest examination, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Here's the history of Black Pete in the Netherlands. https://www.humanityinaction.org/kn...rn-creations-of-stereotypes-of-black-peoples/

 

[Kiki]

What in the world is Black Pete?

 

[azygous]

What in the world is Black Pete?

He's Santa's helper in the Netherlands. He's depicted as a silly, dopey, loopy little guy who happens to be black and he serves St Nick in his delivery of presents. He, not white St Nick, gets to go down the sooty chimney.

 

[Kiki]

He's Santa's helper in the Netherlands. He's depicted as a silly, dopey, loopy little guy who happens to be black and he serves St Nick in his delivery of presents. He, not white St Nick, gets to go down the sooty chimney.

Thanks...I'd never heard of him.

 

[ShannonR]

He's Santa's helper in the Netherlands. He's depicted as a silly, dopey, loopy little guy who happens to be black and he serves St Nick in his delivery of presents. He, not white St Nick, gets to go down the sooty chimney.

Instead of looking at it as racism, why don't people look at this as cultural diversity? In the US, Santa's helpers are all a bunch of really short white people....

I have no idea what black Pete is, aside from the OP's explanation, but don't see it as a bad thing at all.