Capillaria, giardia and mites - help with product/dosing?

[FunClucks]

So I took a fecal sample to the vet (multiple chickens fecal samples, cecal and non-cecal were mixed together). He found capillaria, giardia, and mites of some type. Sent me home with a 2 oz bottle of Panacur (Fenbendazole) 100 mg/mL liquid, said to put it in their water 3 mL/gallon and change the water out every 72 hrs for 5 days, then treat again in 3-4 weeks. Told me to use Seven dust for the mites. I check my chickens every week, and have not seen evidence of mites on their bodies under feathers (neck and vent and feet), but possibly they could have a beginning case of leg mites. The vet treats chickens but really doesn't want to, he's a livestock and cat/dog vet. He told me straight up that the only thing he could really do is a fecal float. He could see them as if they are a pet ($45 visit fee), but there's not much he can do for chickens.

Common dosage for fenbendazole 100 mg/mL that I've seen on this site is 1/2mL or 1/4 mL for standard or smaller size chicken, syringe into mouth, repeat in 10 days.

1) Which is best, syringe into chicken, or add to water? My chickens allow me to handle them calmly for the most part, but I've never syringed anything into them, and I'm nervous I'll do it wrong. I read the article, but still. I would treat them during the day while they're awake.

I have 16 hens, one rooster, all 6-7 months old that live full time in a covered run that stays pretty dry with 3-6" of wood chips/pinestraw/grass clippings as run litter. They're not acting sick. Had bubbly poo, so I figured I'd better check for worms. 4 of them have not yet come into lay. 6 of them (Prairie Bluebells) are 4-5 lbs tops full grown, but I swear I have one who's maybe 3 lbs. I have three starlight green eggers ~5 lbs, two Buff Orpingtons 6-7 lbs, three ISA browns 5-6 lbs, one golden comet 4-5 lbs, one olive egger 4-5 lbs. Point is I guess that I have a range of chicken weights.

2) I have Martin's Pen & Poultry Chicken and Roost Insecticide Spray (0.5% Permethrin, says it controls lice and mites, but not what type of mites). Would it work on leg mites? I can spray their feet down. Haven't seen any body mites or roost mites, but I'm not sure I'd be able to see roost mites at the moment since the roost is darkened by poo stains. I was using vaseline as a preventative treatment once a month, but maybe not often enough? Looks like they have dry skin, but some of the scales are just starting to lift I think.

3) Giardia? I've no idea what to do for that. The vet said the Fenbendazole would treat that also.

4) What is the withdrawal period for eggs? We're getting about 9 eggs a day, and eating them all, this would be a significant impact for my family. Can we feed the medicated eggs back to the chickens during the withdrawal time? Hate to toss them.

Advice would be welcome. I'm super stressed over this. I've read the BYC articles on syringing meds into a chicken, how to identify mites, and worm identification and treatment. Also read some stuff on the chicken chick website. So much information, but how to apply it all is throwing me a bit.

 

[dawg53]

1. Dosing each bird orally with a syringe is best, that way you know they got properly wormed, no question about it. I prefer to use Valbazen (albendazole) as it takes less to dose, and time to worm each bird. I've also used Safeguard liquid goat wormer (fenbendazole) to worm birds.
The Safeguard liquid goat wormer dosage is 0.25ml per pound of weight given orally to each chicken for 5 days straight. It will eliminate every type of worms your chickens have except tapeworms. Simply get an average weight with your heavy breeds and dose accordingly, same with smaller in weight breeds and dose accordingly.

Valbazen dosage is 1/2ml given orally using a syringe without a needle. Dosage is 1/2ml for a 4-6 pound bird. Or 0.08ml per pound. Then repeat again in 10 days and you're done.
Both Valbazen and Safeguard will take care of giardia as well, they are in the same class of wormers, benzimidazoles. Here's a link that will help you how to worm a chicken in detail, please read it;
See post #4 in this link:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/worming-questions.1515680/#post-25504826

2: Permethrin kills all lice and mites. For scaley leg mites, I recommend a tube of Nu-Stock. It can be found in the Equine section at a feed store. Shake the tube well, wear disposable gloves and apply it to the legs and feet. Put a light coat on roosts inside the coop.

3. Both fenbendazole and albendazole will treat giardia.
4. The link I provided in post #1 explains egg withdrawal.

Most importantly, dont worry. Everything will be fine.

 

[FunClucks]

1. Dosing each bird orally with a syringe is best, that way you know they got properly wormed, no question about it. I prefer to use Valbazen (albendazole) as it takes less to dose, and time to worm each bird. I've also used Safeguard liquid goat wormer (fenbendazole) to worm birds.
The Safeguard liquid goat wormer dosage is 0.25ml per pound of weight given orally to each chicken for 5 days straight. It will eliminate every type of worms your chickens have except tapeworms. Simply get an average weight with your heavy breeds and dose accordingly, same with smaller in weight breeds and dose accordingly.

Valbazen dosage is 1/2ml given orally using a syringe without a needle. Dosage is 1/2ml for a 4-6 pound bird. Or 0.08ml per pound. Then repeat again in 10 days and you're done.
Both Valbazen and Safeguard will take care of giardia as well, they are in the same class of wormers, benzimidazoles. Here's a link that will help you how to worm a chicken in detail, please read it;
See post #4 in this link:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/worming-questions.1515680/#post-25504826

2: Permethrin kills all lice and mites. For scaley leg mites, I recommend a tube of Nu-Stock. It can be found in the Equine section at a feed store. Shake the tube well, wear disposable gloves and apply it to the legs and feet. Put a light coat on roosts inside the coop.
View attachment 3283433
3. Both fenbendazole and albendazole will treat giardia.
4. The link I provided in post #1 explains egg withdrawal.

Most importantly, dont worry. Everything will be fine.

Thank you so much!!!!! I seriously appreciate your response!!!

How often would I apply the Nu-Stock? How frequently to treat this infestation, and then how often can I apply it preventatively? (assuming I can apply it preventatively)

 

[dawg53]

Once you put the Nu-Stock on the feet and legs, it's going to stay on the feet and legs and kill the mites. Read the ingredients and you'll see why, it's good stuff.

 

[FunClucks]

So I spent 6 hours today dosing my 17 chickens(!!!) I thought it might take a few hours, but six? And that's just dosing the chickens, no run cleanout or other chicken chores. Didn't manage to take them off the roost this morning, but got out there not long after they'd woken up, and blocked off the food for several hours after they were treated, so hopefully that helped. Caught and wrapped each chicken in a towel, administered the Valbazen in a syringe to each chicken, then went back out and bathed each chicken's feet to clean off the dirt and poo, dried them, and then applied Nu-stock ointment and set them free back in the covered run. They were surprisingly compliant while wrapped in a towel. I wouldn't say they were happy about it, we had some open mouthed breathing, but they weren't physically panicking or verbally complaining, just the occasional attempt to prevent me from messing with their feet whenever they thought they could get some leverage.

The syringe dosing went easier than I thought, only two chickens really tried to fight me. Many of them actually ended up liking the medicine, and they were slightly more compliant once they realized "food" was involved. I don't think I put any of it in the wrong spot, I guess we'll wait and see if anyone develops pneumonia... Crossing my fingers.

Quite a few chicken feet had cuts or abrasions, or missing scales, and a few looked like the beginnings of bumblefoot. Maybe 1/8" diameter spots, most on the toes, a few on the pad of the foot. Found a few chickens that I'm pretty sure have leg mites based on how their scales look, but it's not super far advanced. I'll put the Nu-Stock on again in three days (don't know where I'll find the time!) and 3 days after that and see if they look any better then. Sure hope everything clears up.

To clean the chickens' feet, I wrapped the chicken in a towel, unwrapped the tail and feet, and dunked the legs and feet into a 5-gallon bucket of soapy water. I used a washcloth to scrub off the dirt, dunked a few more times if needed, then dunked them in a 5-gallon bucket of clean water to rinse them off. I dried them with a towel and then applied Nu-Stock ointment. This whole time, I was wearing disposable nitrile gloves. The Nu-Stock was impossible to get off the gloves, although I went through a number of paper towels trying.

Is there a better way to do these things? Is it important to wash the feet each time I apply the ointment, or if they're visually clean next time, can I just apply the ointment? By the 5th or 6th chicken, the towel we wrapped with was getting somewhat damp in places, and I had Nu-Stock smeared on the towel, my clothes, dribbled on the floor of the run, etc. I'm sure I got a small amount on the feathers of each bird I caught prior to getting them towel-wrapped. By the end of the 17th chicken, it was three times worse, my hands were becoming numb, and I was really thirsty. What I thought was 4 hours tops was suddenly 6.

My rooster did well though. He's semi-skittish, doesn't like to be handled, we pretty much ignore him. But he did let us pick him up and wrap him without too much trouble although he didn't like it. My son hand-fed him chicken feed while I was washing his feet to keep him distracted. By the time he was done, I was pretty much done too, so that worked out.

 

[dawg53]

Hahahaha. Yeah, I got a good laugh. I've been through exactly what you did but in the short and long term, you did the right thing for your birds. It's all about their safety, health, and welfare and you did a superb job! Congrats! If we lived closer, I wouldve help you.
Practice makes perfect and as time passes, you'll get better at doing this sort of thing and it will go quicker for you next time. Experience is the best teacher.

I'd wait about 5-7 days before putting Nu-Stock back on their feet/legs, it's up to you, and it should be the last. The initial feet/leg cleaning/soaking is good enough, you dont have to clean them again. Once the Nu-Stock gets down into the soft tissue due to the soaking, it's bye bye mites. Dont forget to put a light coat of Nu-Stock on the roosts. That way the mites cant travel from one bird to another and it will kill them.

Once I'm done with Nu-Stock, I put it in a double ziplock bag and then I can keep it in the house. Hot temps will melt it and will be useless.
I always wear old chicken clothes when it comes to handling birds. I've lost count how many times I've been pooped on.
I worm my birds monthly due to our soil conditions and also due to the fact I keep my birds penned all the time due to predators. Sand in the pens helps deter parasites and keep everything dry which is key deterring parasites.

My chickens are used to getting wormed very early on worming day and it takes me about 30 minutes to worm 22 chickens. I have a small flashlight to see what I'm doing in the dark. But I switch to an small ultraviolet flashlight when I'm ready to dose them orally. They calm down with the ultraviolet flashlight because they cant see as well like with bright flashlight.
Yep, when they see me coming with the bottle of Valbazen, they stand at attention because they are used to it!

I forgot to add that if you dont see redness nor swelling on the footpad, there's no need to do anything. The scabs will usually disappear on their own. Just checking the feet once a week is good enough unless you see limping, redness, swelling.
Then it's time for bumblefoot surgery.

 

[FunClucks]

Hahahaha. Yeah, I got a good laugh. I've been through exactly what you did but in the short and long term, you did the right thing for your birds. It's all about their safety, health, and welfare and you did a superb job! Congrats! If we lived closer, I wouldve help you.
Practice makes perfect and as time passes, you'll get better at doing this sort of thing and it will go quicker for you next time. Experience is the best teacher.

I'd wait about 5-7 days before putting Nu-Stock back on their feet/legs, it's up to you, and it should be the last. The initial feet/leg cleaning/soaking is good enough, you dont have to clean them again. Once the Nu-Stock gets down into the soft tissue due to the soaking, it's bye bye mites. Dont forget to put a light coat of Nu-Stock on the roosts. That way the mites cant travel from one bird to another and it will kill them.

Once I'm done with Nu-Stock, I put it in a double ziplock bag and then I can keep it in the house. Hot temps will melt it and will be useless.
I always wear old chicken clothes when it comes to handling birds. I've lost count how many times I've been pooped on.
I worm my birds monthly due to our soil conditions and also due to the fact I keep my birds penned all the time due to predators. Sand in the pens helps deter parasites and keep everything dry which is key deterring parasites.

My chickens are used to getting wormed very early on worming day and it takes me about 30 minutes to worm 22 chickens. I have a small flashlight to see what I'm doing in the dark. But I switch to an small ultraviolet flashlight when I'm ready to dose them orally. They calm down with the ultraviolet flashlight because they cant see as well like with bright flashlight.
Yep, when they see me coming with the bottle of Valbazen, they stand at attention because they are used to it!

I forgot to add that if you dont see redness nor swelling on the footpad, there's no need to do anything. The scabs will usually disappear on their own. Just checking the feet once a week is good enough unless you see limping, redness, swelling.
Then it's time for bumblefoot surgery.
View attachment 3285376

Thank you so much for the encouragement!!! I knew it would take a while, but oh my goodness!!! I sure do hope I get faster as I go. I think next time will be better. I'll get a red headlamp or something - that would probably help a lot. I've specifically kept my flock size at less than 20 so I can care individually for each chicken, but even with less than 20, I think I've underestimated the time commitment.

I don't have to bathe them again unless they're super dirty! So good to know! I'll put some Nu-Stock on the roosts also, it hadn't occurred to me. Catching, inspecting, and Nu-Stocking 17 chickens will be much faster than bathing them first. Appreciate the pointers on how to store - I had no idea. It's pretty cool here heading into winter, but in summer it's super hot.

I keep my birds penned all the time too, in a covered run. The coop is currently in construction. The rain gets into the run maybe once every 2-3 months, so it can get really dry in there and dusty. They're on 3-6" of wood chips mixed with some grass clippings and pinestraw. I had taken to watering the run down about once a month due to the extreme dust - I figured if it was bothering me, it was probably bothering them. I was trying to do deep litter in the run, but it wasn't composting due to the dryness, and poop was starting to become evident. Chickens have been in the run for about 5 months or so now, and I just started noticing bubbles in poo and watery poops. So if I keep it dry all the time, I won't have much of a worm issue (I think), but then I have dust issues, and no compositing in the run. If I water it periodically, I have to be careful not to get it too wet or the next batch of worms will hatch. There's got to be a sweet spot, but I haven't found it yet.

I've considered sand, but I do still get occasional severe rainstorms that will seep into the coop quite a bi, and I've heard that sand is great, but once it starts getting sodden, it doesn't work as well. Also, I can't find a good supplier here of anything but playsand or construction sand, and I have dust concerns about those.

I was looking at their feathers again, and I'm not sure if I have bird or roost mites or not (pretty positive on the leg mites due to the scales appearance). They kinda look like the pictures, no lice, but possibly black mites. I've got some Elector PSP on order, and will spray out the entire run prior to the second dose of Valbazen to see if that will help with mites. It will be nice once I get the coop going, and can treat the coop for these things instead of the entire run.

 

[FunClucks]

So I did the second Valbazen treatment this morning, and the second Nu-Stock treatment this past Saturday. 7 days apart for the Nu-Stock, but 11 for the Valbazen. Do you think 11 day time elapse on the Valbazen second dose will create issues? I'm trying to kill both the capillaria worms and giardia.

The dosing went better this morning - I had bought a red headlamp, and my son held them while I administered the medicine. The medicine went in well for the most part, they still don't like it. Taking them off the roost, it was easier to catch the first six or so, but then they started to get all worked up, and started jumping off the roost in the dark, and stumbling around fluffy. It was below freezing last night, and they are in an open covered run still, but they seemed fine this morning. It was easier to catch them when they couldn't see, but somewhat challenging to ID a few of them in the red light. There were a lot of nasty cecal poops on their feet that they managed to step in, so all the clothes went directly into the wash as soon as possible. Good thing I didn't try to do the Nu-Stock at the same time, that would have been nasty!

Their poops have been looking better this past week, and their feet were looking better when I put the second round of Nu-Stock on. I'll still follow up in another week or so and see if the few lifted scales on the toes have started to settle down yet. They do settle down flat once the mites are gone, don't they? Or do I have to scrub with a toothbrush and some soap and water to remove what's between the scales first?

I didn't block off the food because I had to go to work, but all the crops I checked were empty, and we finished dosing them 45 minutes before sunrise, so I figure there was at least 45 minutes before they'd be eating their food. Next time, I'll try to dose them earlier so they can get closer to 2 hours without food.They seemed to settle back on the roosts for the most part once we left.

15 minutes to dress and prepare the first round of syringes (I only have six at the moment), half an hour to dose them all, and 15 minutes to clean up our clothes and the syringes. I think that went pretty well this morning.

Also, we cleaned out the two 5-gallon sideways nipple waterers, and set them up on 12"x8"x16" cinderblocks, and the 12" is just the right height for their heads to drink, and too high for them to kick up dirt onto the nipples when they scratch about. So I'm super glad we finally have a good waterer height/support figured out. Maybe that will prevent the re-infection with Giardia.

 

[dawg53]

Sounds like you did a good job. Now that you know what to expect next time you worm them, it'll go easier for you.

As for the second dosing, you can go up to 14 days after the initial dosing. Eleven days is fine, no problem. That's about the time frame needed to kill worms hatched from eggs missed by the first dosing. Wormers are ineffective treating worm eggs.

Yep, I shouldve mentioned that it's best to wear old "chicken clothes" and shoes when worming lol.