Cement floor in run?

[ourflockof4]

I agree with Pat. I would either do a wire apron, or dig the wire into the ground. But if you really insist on pouring a foundation you will need to make sure that you have proper drainage inside, drain tile, scuppers, stone fill...ect. ......I would also keep the top at least a couple of inches below grade to reduce ponding from heavy rains.

I would also not recomend just putting sac crete in a hole in adding water. It will not be nearly as strong as if it were properly mixed. Actually, an alternative to that would be to compact screenings (404's, 304's, whatever your local quarry calls them) They are a mix of fine dust up to larger stones. they compact very well when wet. As long as your area remains fairly dry the are exremely hard for anything to dig through.

 

[lichick28]

Thanks for all the input. It was very helpful info.

 

[Jx2inNC]

Quote:
Depends how big of predators you have in your area.
There aren't any elephants or the like trying to tear through people's coops around here

, so commercial grade concrete isn't a huge concern (and it doesn't create quite as bad of the "bathtub" effects, etc. that some are worried about).
All my 8' posts are done this way and I would love to see something (much less someone) tear into it with ease.
With saturated soil, some people have even used NO water, and the material still sets up. Pretty cool, huh?

{To be technical, only half of the Quikrete amount that goes into the hole is directed to be mixed.
But I am also not interested in building a driveway or load bearing surface that will see that much weight being applied to it.
I don't think this individual is as well.}

I am burying and/or creating an apron with hardware mesh and leftover welded wire myself, for what it's worth, but I do have some leftover bags of Quikrete...

 

[Jx2inNC]

Quote:
Will you have any hardware mesh or welded wire leftover?

 

[lichick28]

I did not start the project yet but we are in Pa. & that's a trip from N.C. for some wire, sorry

 

[Knock Kneed Hen]

I haven't even built my run yet so my advice may not be worth much

I have had aviaries with 18" deep footings and never had trouble with predators getting in.
They didn't have chickens in them so drainage wasn't a problem since the birds didn't pack
the ground down.

My neighbors keep telling me to put wire under the entire run. They're run is dug out about
6 inches and instead of an apron they ran the wire completely under the run then back filled
with dirt. They live in a high predator area and have never had anything get in their pen.

The plus side I see to this is that the gopher, moles and ground squirrels can't get in either.
Although they won't eat the chickens themselves, they can make a huge mess out of any
landscape very quickly. The down side is that eventually the wire will decompose...although
in our lifetimes we may not have to worry about it.

 

[Jx2inNC]

Quote:
I didn't mean to give leftovers.

I was referring to you having extra in order to bury in the ground.

 

[Prospector]

Since I was toying with a similar plan to the "bathtub" quoted above...

I was thinkin gof a 2' wide "sidewalk" with the fenceposts set into it going around the run. My plan was to build it up as so:

- Excavate entire run 1' deep
- Set weeping tile/pipe into excavation, running to a creekbed behind the proposed pen.
- backfill with 6"clear stone & compact
- set posts and put up fence
-attach hardware cloth to fence, extending down to clear stone (fence sits higher at slab grade)
- form slab, attaching Hardware cloth to inside of forms & pour
-remove OUTSIDE forms, leaving inside forms in place, holding hardware cloth to slab.
- backfill with "A gravel"

It seems to me that with an approach like this, our only concern would be with rats tunneling up the weeping tile to dig their way in from below.

My concern with burying the hardware cloth is that it must rot out eventually with constant contact with the soil. I could be wrong on that though.

 

[Prospector]

Quote:
Differing opinions here, and thats a healthy thing...

By putting the run below grade, you are encouraging problems. If the concrete is above grade, it will form a dam, holding upstream surface flows out of the run. IMHO, the ring of concrete would need to be higher than the surrounding soils, and sloped at approximately 2-4% toward the outsideof the run. This is the normal slope for drainage. By sloping the concrete to the outside, you end up with the gravel run raised above the surrounding soils. The chickens will want to dig in the gravel/sand so you will end up with some pitting. This means you need to carry the 2% slope up into the gravel, but know that whenever you rake it out, you will need to re-establish the grading to prevent ponding in the run. Basically, the run and apron would endup looking like a small hill if this is done right. Btw 2% is the slope across roads and sidewalks so that they drain properly. Since you are using the same materials, you should expect the same drainage rates and patterns the roads see.

As for the concrete, as a general rule, the dryer a concrete mix is, the stronger the concrete will be. Whether the concrete is mixed in a mixer or a hole makes no difference as long as the right amount of water is used in the mix, and the dirt from the hole doesn't get mixed into the concrete. Since th econcrete will absorb some moisture from the soil, I would suggest reducing the water used in the mix by enough to offset the moisture in the soil. This is where things get tricky. If you can do the math to figure out how much water the concrete will absorb, I want to hire you. Reality says though, that even without any concrete, the fenceposts should hold OK as long as they are set deep enough. Many fences are built without concrete to set the posts. Setting the posts with a bag of sand can actually be a better system than concrete since the sand will allow for movement without being thrust up by winter frosts the way concrete is.

I would use the screenings for post setting, however I would not use them for a run in a rainy area. Screenings have a higher content of "fines" or dust, and they will pack down to form a barrier that the water has a hard time getting through. A coarser gravel should allow for better drainage, and still allow the chicks to dust bathe/scratch. If Screenings are to be used, I would suggest a thin layer over a bed of coarser gravel, graded to around 2%.

Just a couple suggestions from a guy who has never built a chicken run.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
You can try it. I still have a few reservations, namely: 1) you're assuming the weeping tile will be adequate and will not plug up. If you're wrong, it'll be a real big pain to remediate. 2) you can't be using large diameter drainpipe, as predators will enter that way; would need to use something no larger than 2" or so and you'd still have the potential for entry by rats (although honestly if rats want into your coop they'll probably GET in). 3) Setting fenceposts even partially into concrete is usually a real bad idea, because it accelerates their rot AND makes them darn near impossible to repair or replace, always a fun combination.

Any galvanized mesh buried in the earth DOES indeed rust through in time; although if you start with a heavy enough gauge (like 14 gauge) it'll take quite a while before it becomes really weak, hardwarecloth will reach that point sooner.

That is partly why personally I think an apron of wire mesh ON (or just below) the surface of the ground, as opposed to mesh buried under the fence, is almost always the clear winner. Done right you get just as much security with much easier installation and much better capacity to check and repair it as needed.

But if you like the 'sidewalk' idea, what if you do this: put the hardwarecloth at the base of your run as you describe, then buy some 24x24" pavers (or even just 18x24") and make your 'sidewalk/apron' out of THOSE. They do a good job of digproofing, while not impeding drainage very much (esp. if you've set them onto a shallow bed of screenings), and it's a much easier job than mixing and pouring concrete. I have this sort of arrangement in some parts of my setup, works fine for me.

JMHO,

Pat