Co-parenting... will I get them to hatch! *Assisted hatch success & pictures!!!*

[Cats Cradle]

I completely agree with your feelings about assisted hatches. I am the same way when hatching my chicks. But, the more I read about muscovies, the more I realized that traditional artificial incubation doesn't work as well for them. As I read more from many sources, the one thing I saw repeated was that they had the most deaths very late in incubation. They would grow to "full term" and then not be able to hatch. With chicks I don't like to assist because I feel it brings weakness into the flock. With the muscovies I realized that until their incubation needs are better understood, I needed to do all I could to protect the lives I'd placed in the incubator. I hope that makes sense.

How is your hatch going? You've already read up on assisting, so I'm sure you're doing fine. I went very slow. The thing you don't want is to tear membranes too fast and have a big bleed. My ducks were quite ready to get out by the time I helped and only one had one tiny drop of blood from a membrane. (Based on how well sealed it's navel was once it was out, I doubt that had any effect on it, but of course I had no way to know how sealed the navel was at that time.)

Since I was working with three I did them in a rotation. I'd do what I felt I could safely do to one, then wrap it in a warm wet paper towel (keeping the beak clear for breathing) and move on to the next. Mine had been externally pipped for almost 48 hours, so the only real issue I ran into was everything was dried and stuck.

Once I finally had the membrames "zipped" enough to allow the head to straighten out I invented a new method to get the moisture into all the dried areas. I simply got a bowl of warm water... as close to incubator temp as I could... and then lowered the bottom part of the egg in. I was very careful to keep the head above water! From there it went quick! The warm water started loosening everything and the ducks started trying to kick free. I placed the first one back on its side in the incubator and it only took a few seconds to kick the shell off. I was very pleased to see it's navel was fully sealed! The second one actually kicked the shell off in the water. The third one had more "glue" or whatever you call the sticky stuff and took a couple of dips before everything was loose. My husband who was helping called it water birthing.

You may not have the dryness issue I had as yours weren't externally pipped for 2 days. Also... giving that navel time to seal is very important. In chicks I know it's only in the last 2 days that the yolk is drawn into the abdomen... I assume it's similar with ducks. It is very important not to rush them out before that process is complete!

I wish we didn't have such a huge time difference! I'm guessing you're asleep now, so I'll be looking forward to your update when its morning there! I'm sending good thoughts to you and your duckies!!!

 

[TinaK]

Little duckies are doing well!!

All three that I pipped and were still alive, are still alive this morning and moving away! They have not progressed any further on their own but due to the long time it takes for a muscovy to hatch, I feel like I should sit and wait a little longer. It has been about 24 hours since I last helped them...

I am a bit concerned for the one that I pipped and couldn't locate a beak! but it is still in there moving away... no beak to be seen. I am tempted to dab some water into the opening that I created with a Q tip, but I figure if it has survived this far, it is doing a pretty good job on it's own.

The membrane on one duckling looks a little dry where I have opened the shell, but otherwise I think that the humidity has been kept high enough and they are looking pretty nice and sticky in there! It's been a fair while since I opened the bator at all. So I'm hoping that this is in their favour! I may need to open the bator to top up the water levels at some point later today... I'm considering doing it in the bathroom, with the room full of steam to prevent any drop in humidity.

I have been told by others (on facebook) that a muscovy can take up to 48 hours to hatch. They suggested that I wait until 48 hours has gone by before I do anything else. As usual, I have the naysayers telling me that I have done the wrong thing, but I don't really care for their opinions at this point! What's done is done!

Without you, I would have been tempted to rip the buggers out of the shells a long time ago!

Thanks again for sharing your experiences Cats Cradle! I haven't found anyone else who has been in a similar situation so it is nice to have your support during this whole operation! As you said, you have only done it once before..... but that is a lot more times than anyone else has! Just to hear your story, and how far you had to assist your little ones, is enough for me to feel a bit more confident about the whole situation. I love your water birth technique! Who would have thought of that!!!!

awww I can hear peeping from the bator as I type. I just hope that they kick the shells off soon and come into the world on their own!

 

[TinaK]

I DID IT! I DID IT!!!!!! I have a live duckling out of the shell! I am so excited!!!!

(now I get to worry about whether it survives or not! THIS IS STRESS!)

Things were looking too dry - all the membrane I could see had turned white, or clear like glad wrap on one of the eggs..... I was just going to dab it with some water... but when I saw the seriousness of the situation I took drastic action. I got the warm, wet towel and my trusty hands ready. When I got the egg out of the bator it was clear to me that it wasn't going to hatch without my further intervention. The membrane was preventing the little baby from breaking free. It had turned dry and hard, like some sort of glue.

Cats Cradle, I performed some of your 'water birth' technique, which softened the membrane slightly! Thanks sooo much for that golden piece of wisdom!!! I then used my fingers to wet the little duck, so that the membrane would moisten further. I gradually began picking back the shell, finding no sign of yolk or any blood vessels. (This made me realise I had clearly waited long enough.)

After getting half the shell off, peeling off tough membrane and freeing one of the ducklings legs (and having it try and kick free right then and there!!!) I put it back into the bator. A few good leg kicks and it was free! WOW!

It is now sitting in there panting away.

Now I am looking at the second egg. (duckling 3 - the one whose beak I couldn't see, died late this afternoon

). I have a bad feeling I am going to need to 'hatch' this one too. I'm having a small glass of wine and building up some dutch courage! From what I can see, it's membrane isn't as dry as the one that just hatched. So I might even give it a few more hours.

I can't help wondering... If I had left them alone would they have hatched at all? I think my humidity drop while I was away for 3 days has paid a large part in causing this to be so difficult. I also know that by 'externally pipping' these eggs, I probably caused a lot of the drying out. But those I didn't pip just died in their shell. All fully developed. Yolk absorbed.

I won't be rushing to do this again any time soon. I feel a bit faint!!!!

 

[Cats Cradle]

HOORAY!!!! A DUCKIE!!! Good job!!!

How's the other little one?

I wouldn't worry about what anyone says that hasn't hatched muscovy before! I read everything I could find online prior to hatching mine, and everything I found said they have a lot of late deaths in the shell. So its not just like hatching chickens. It's also much easier to say what you'd do when you're not the one looking into the incubator and feeling responsible for the tiny lives inside. Trust me... I was pacing asnd shaking too when mine were hatching so I know just how you feel!

I will be waiting for your next update! What time is it there? I'm in the US near the east coast so I'm on Eastern Daylight Time (EDT.) Its about 8:15 am right now. I know you have several time zones in Australia too.

 

[TinaK]

Cats Cradle - It's just over 4 hours since you posted... so probably around 12:45pm your time? I am ashamed to admit that it is almost 2:30am here! We are GMT + 10. I'm not very savvy when it comes to time zones!!!! My sleep patterns over the last week have been all over the place! I can't help but get stuck watching the olympics every night! (and it doesn't help when you work from home, and can choose your own hours!!).

I am soOooOo happy to say that we have ducky #2 happily drying out with its buddy in the hatching box!!!!!! I had to do much the same with #2 as I did with the first duckling. A full scale operation. Once again it had no blood vessels left that were red and had absorbed the entire yolk.

I credit my success to you, Cats Cradle! Thank you ever so much for holding my hand during this whole experience. I wouldn't have had the guts to do what I did without you! Without the intervention, I think these poor guys would have suffered the same fate as the others.

This is them both just after hatching! The one whose face you can see is the second duckling. The membrane on this one was no where near as dry and hard as the first one! You can still see a crusty patch of membrane on the right hand side of ducky #1's back (the one facing away from us).




Ducky #1 - Beginning to dry out!



Ducky #2



I just love watching them dry out and get fluffier by the hour. Probably another reason why I can't get to bed!!! I can't wait to see them when I wake up in the morning. They will be twice as cute again!

 

[Cats Cradle]

Congratulations on your Babies!!!

They are sooooo cute!!! Mine are all solid blackish/brown... I love the markings on yours!!!

I can never sleep either when someone is hatching or there are new babies. I guess it's the mom in me. I just have to keep checking to see how they are doing, just like when my own kids were little.

Now... if you haven't already done so you need to have a chat with Trigger and let her know she needs to pick a better nesting spot next time around! I'd be sure to let her know all she put you through!

Here are my three:


It's hard to believe how fast they get BIG! Mine only hatched 2 weeks ago and they are HUGE now! (Well... 2 are. One is quite the runt, but it is s-l-o-w-l-y growing.) I'll try to get some updated pictures for you tomorrow.

Again... congratulations! You did awesome!!!

 

[TinaK]

Time for some updated pictures I think!!! The little ones are getting stronger and more mobile by the hour. They certainly are not showing any ill effects from the assisted hatching!











I love your little brown ones Cats Cradle! They are soooo cute! My DH wanted yellow ducklings so he was a bit sad when ours came out black & yellow! (Their parents are both black and white.... so it was to be expected!)

I also have a white drake paired up with a blue / white duck. She hasn't even started laying yet! When they get going I'll get some yellow ducklings!

Trigger is having a break from the boys at the moment! She needs some time to recover from being molested by the drakes sooo much. I'd like for her to get some more feathers back from between her wings before they start at her again! But don't worry.... I've already promised her I'll take the boys away next time so she can nest where ever she wants to!