Cream Legbar Pictures

[ChicKat]

Thanks Chikat. I also have read many times that the desired leg color is yellow. And every chick I have seen for sale else where have had yellow legs. There were 15 chicks total from the hatch and two were most definitely male with very large head spots and a different coloring. Three were muted stripes like these with no head spot. They all ended up males. I sold them all as pullets. These two she mentioned she thought were Roos and when she sent the three week pic I was like, big combs but pullet feathering. So we gave it more time and the five week pics I was like wow I think these are Roos... I have to remiburse three chicks now hahahahahaha. Thanks for the replies. BTW the rest were very vivid, dark eyeliner and back stripe pullets.

Thanks Liz, that is good to know.... For all of us -- Autosexing (as well as blue eggs) -- certainly is the most important reason(s) that we want Cream Legbars -- everywhere in the USA -- all the back yard flocks need a cute CL (or a few) !!

 

[Junibutt]

Although I disagree with Junibutt on preferable leg color--- my thinking is that yellow would be better than willow, since willow would indicate melanizers and that is one thing that I may want to reduce in my own flock, I agree with him and with Sol2go that they are male chicks. I can see how they could possibly be misidentified in the day-old picture --

You have identified something that seems to be popping up more here in the 'States, and I guess is pretty common in UK. The breed explanation for sexing tells us that the distinct (bright) chipmunk stripes and the dark and continuous dorsal dark thick stripe indicate female -- also the very visible V at the front of the head - small part of the V pointing toward the beak. For the males -- the diffuse chipmunk stripes.

The males seem to have a barring gene that is either not expressing or expressing more weakly and indefinitely than would be optimum for crisp barring I think-- although CLs go through so many changes as they move to complete adult plumage, I could be mistaken there. IMO the strong definite white head blotch on the male is an indication of strong barring genetics. Although it is visible in the photo from Punnett's day, I don't believe he mentions it -- and in my line -- it is so prominent that I can tell when the chick is still wet it will have a light head splotch.

The three week old picture - they look the most pullet-like of all --

These little cockerels do have a nice head-comb-crest combination -- and the yellow legs and beak are a plus IMO. It would indicate to me that they don't have excess melanizers - and they could help someone who needed to reduce the black in their flock's barring/markings.

Thanks for posting -- because this is really informative.

Here is a chick sexing plate from genetics journal in Punnett's day:


Two girls with V's and a boy with splotch

Just hatched boy above with white/light splotch

Just hatched girl with V and dorsal chipmumk stripes over back.....

ETA - if you aren't familiar with the Punnett chick photo/plate -- the middle and top chicks are male - and the bottom two are female.

Apologies for my incorrect observation. For some reason I was under the impression the chicks have willow green legs that turn yellow as they grow. However, since that is not true, should one cull for willow legs as a chick?

 

[ChicKat]

Apologies for my incorrect observation. For some reason I was under the impression the chicks have willow green legs that turn yellow as they grow. However, since that is not true, should one cull for willow legs as a chick?

Perhaps it depends on where the adult ends up and what you are working on in your flock....IF you were trying to reduce melanizers than maybe it would be one hint -- but I don't think it si cut-and-dried by any means....this is a theory at this point. -- I don't think most CLs have bright yellow until they get about 8 weeks old. (or so)---

The reason I am now going down two roads at one time - is because I'm thinking maybe the black pigments (melainzers) -- are going to give the most crisp barring in adults....so it may depend on which look you are going for/prefer.

The gray-white like the Applegarth birds --

visible in the tail - hackles and breast---kind of a low-contrast barring or a subdued barring


Although an artist conception - this is particularly a look I like -- because IF you were to remove the barring you would have the true duckwing. I kind of like the tie to the duckwing (as in Danish Brown Leghorn) -- and I like to see where the wing bar is etc. on the chickens.

Okay -- here are two juveniles that I am tracking to see if one grows up to have the more faded-together barring and one the more crisp barring -- I don't know that one or the other is preferable -- I think it is kind of a matter of preference...


The difference is pretty subtle IMO -- but the foreground chick definitely has more dark pigment.
ETA - maybe the foreground chick has a more willow cast to legs and the background chick more clear yellow......

 

[sol2go]

Apologies for my incorrect observation. For some reason I was under the impression the chicks have willow green legs that turn yellow as they grow. However, since that is not true, should one cull for willow legs as a chick?

I'm not culling for willow legs at hatch, which some of my breeding stock is showing.
I prefer the bright yellow legs right from the hatch, as it seems they tend to fade with age; two and three year olds.
So I'm watching the different offspring to see if there are other benefits or drawbacks.

 

[chicken pickin]

Thanks Chikat. I also have read many times that the desired leg color is yellow. And every chick I have seen for sale else where have had yellow legs. There were 15 chicks total from the hatch and two were most definitely male with very large head spots and a different coloring. Three were muted stripes like these with no head spot. They all ended up males. I sold them all as pullets. These two she mentioned she thought were Roos and when she sent the three week pic I was like, big combs but pullet feathering. So we gave it more time and the five week pics I was like wow I think these are Roos... I have to remiburse three chicks now hahahahahaha. Thanks for the replies. BTW the rest were very vivid, dark eyeliner and back stripe pullets.

Are these eggs that you hatched from your own flock of CL or did you obtain the hatching eggs from else where?

Your right that these chicks did didn't look quite male as chicks but also didn't quite look like pullets. Its also great that you are making it right with your customer/s. Some where along the way it might be that chicks that weren't fully identifiable as male or female were used in breeding. Many might not realize that selecting breeder birds does start with the evaluation of day old, without proper selection of chicks that display proper and distinct male/female patterns problems will start occurring down the line.

Auto sexing is VERY important to this breed, right up their with them being correct for cream. This breed is tough and does require evaluations and culling starting at hatch. Working on autosexing, proper size crest, correct cream coloring, straight comb,s blue egg and we can not forget type. It is a lot to take in, this breed is very complex.

Suggestion to everyone. If you understand how to auto sex this breed and know what to look for and you still have second thoughts about their sex then that chick might be considered a cull IMO. BUT this brings up the point that the new Rees line chicks look a bit different, females sometimes are not as distinct as day olds and as they feather in they even show a bit of barring making it a little confusing if your new to seeing this line. They still loo like females just a little different than the ones we are used to seeing.

About leg color, I agree that ideally chicks legs should be more on the yellow side at hatch. That said I personally do not cull for leg color on day olds since I have had some hatch willow or even "dingy" and they turn a nice yellow as they mature. My Rees chicks all hatched with nice yellow legs, more yellow than the chicks from my CL flock.

 

[LizCar]

These were eggs I bought and supposedly, was told they were stock from Omega Hills. Her roo was UBER light. Some chicks were as vibrant as vibrant could be. Three were muted I sold them as layers but... They were all Roos hahahaha!

 

[ChicKat]

Are these eggs that you hatched from your own flock of CL or did you obtain the hatching eggs from else where?

Your right that these chicks did didn't look quite male as chicks but also didn't quite look like pullets. Its also great that you are making it right with your customer/s. Some where along the way it might be that chicks that weren't fully identifiable as male or female were used in breeding. Many might not realize that selecting breeder birds does start with the evaluation of day old, without proper selection of chicks that display proper and distinct male/female patterns problems will start occurring down the line.

Auto sexing is VERY important to this breed, right up their with them being correct for cream. This breed is tough and does require evaluations and culling starting at hatch. Working on autosexing, proper size crest, correct cream coloring, straight comb,s blue egg and we can not forget type. It is a lot to take in, this breed is very complex.

Suggestion to everyone. If you understand how to auto sex this breed and know what to look for and you still have second thoughts about their sex then that chick might be considered a cull IMO. BUT this brings up the point that the new Rees line chicks look a bit different, females sometimes are not as distinct as day olds and as they feather in they even show a bit of barring making it a little confusing if your new to seeing this line. They still loo like females just a little different than the ones we are used to seeing.

About leg color, I agree that ideally chicks legs should be more on the yellow side at hatch. That said I personally do not cull for leg color on day olds since I have had some hatch willow or even "dingy" and they turn a nice yellow as they mature. My Rees chicks all hatched with nice yellow legs, more yellow than the chicks from my CL flock.

Mostly I agree with this -- except maybe to say that even before being day - olds -- If we were all really on top of our game we would be selecting for the eggs that even go into the incubator or under then broody hen.... blue preferably - nice size and shape.

My day olds never have yellow legs or beaks...they come out fairly --baby-pink- and don't get pigment for awhile....

 

[chicken pickin]

Mostly I agree with this -- except maybe to say that even before being day - olds -- If we were all really on top of our game we would be selecting for the eggs that even go into the incubator or under then broody hen.... blue preferably - nice size and shape.

My day olds never have yellow legs or beaks...they come out fairly --baby-pink- and don't get pigment for awhile....

I guess you could look at it that way too lol, so good point about the egg!

My day olds have had leg color range from a very few chicks with willow legs, some with a dingy color that I cant really describe other than that..

My Rees line chicks had more yellow legs at hatch.

My CL chicks with what I consider "dingy" legs


My Rees chicks that I consider to have more of yellow legs

 

[ChicKat]

I guess you could look at it that way too lol, so good point about the egg!

My day olds have had leg color range from a very few chicks with willow legs, some with a dingy color that I cant really describe other than that..

My Rees line chicks had more yellow legs at hatch.

Yes, that is what most of mine have at hatch -- 'dingy' -- beaks to match. LOL

 

[LizCar]

Hey look at this. This is the third chick I got a pic of it today. Comb like roo but look how dark feathering is, looks like my pullet Bielefelder chicks. Weird. He was also a muted chick, the most muted of the bunch.