Curious breeding questions

[Bumbles]

I’m just curious….

we have a barred rock rooster (and a recently discovered EE rooster). Along with our roosters we have EE hens, lavender Orpingtons, jubilee Orpingtons, cream legbars, Swedish flower, and salmon faveroles. Since it is a possibility that we may end Up with babies one day, I’m just wondering what the outcomes might be. I know that, obviously, anything EE can have any look. And also that the lavenders would breed black with the barred rock. I’m not really curious on the EE roo as, again, they can throw anything. I know that they would all be barnyard mixes. Just wondering if anyone has pictures of any of the remainder combinations. And if not, if you know what they might look like. Like, would the BR roo and jubilee hen throw barred, jubilee, or solid feathering? Again, not planning on breeding. Just wondering what might happen if they were able to sneak some babies. Also, I’m not too good with genetic terms, so if you could explain in layman’s terms, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advanced to everyone that comments!

 

[NatJ]

we have a barred rock rooster (and a recently discovered EE rooster). Along with our roosters we have EE hens, lavender Orpingtons, jubilee Orpingtons, cream legbars, Swedish flower, and salmon faveroles. Since it is a possibility that we may end Up with babies one day, I’m just wondering what the outcomes might be.

Barred Rock rooster x Lavender Orpington hen: all chicks black with white barring

Barred Rock rooster x Jubilee Orpington hen: all chicks black with white barring

Barred Rock rooster x Cream Legbar hen: all chicks black with white barring, all should have a small crest. Male vs. female chicks may be sexable the same way pure Barred Rocks are sexable (males have a bigger head spot, lighter colored legs, more white in their barring) That's not 100% accurate, because some chicks are in the middle and confusing. That kind of sexing will only work for chicks with TWO barred parents, not for chicks from your other hens.

Barred Rock rooster x Swedish Flower hen: depends a bit on the color of the hen, but most likely black chicks with white barring . If the mother has blue or splash in her coloring, chicks could be blue with white barring.

Barred Rock rooster x Salmon Faverolles hen: all chicks black with white barring

Barred Rock rooster x EE hens: all chicks will have white barring. Base color may be black, or may be blue or white (depending on the genes of the EE hen involved).


Leakage means any other color that appears when you are expecting a solid-colored chicken. Leakage is likely in all chicks except the Barred Rock x Lavender Orpington ones. Those two come from breeds that are bred to be solid black with no leakage, so the chicks have a good chance of having no leakage. (Barred Rock is black with white barring, Lavender is black dluted by the lavender gene.)

I know that, obviously, anything EE can have any look.

That is true for EEs in general.

But it is sometimes possible to predict chick outcomes from a specific EE rooster or from a specific EE hen. That works when the appearance of the chicken tells something important about what genes it has, which can be used to predict how the offspring are likely to look.

But there are some other EEs with an appearance that can be caused by several different genes, or that can hide the effects of some other genes, and the offspring of those EEs cannot really be predicted.

If you want to post photos of your EEs, someone on here may be able to predict some of the chick outcomes from them.

Also, I’m not too good with genetic terms, so if you could explain in layman’s terms, I would greatly appreciate it.

Let me know if I said anything confusing, and I'll try to say it another way. I know that saying the "same" things in different words can make a big difference in how easy they are to understand.

 

[Bumbles]

Let me know if I said anything confusing, and I'll try to say it another way. I know that saying the "same" things in different words can make a big difference in how easy they are to understand.

I understood all of this! Thank you. It’s kinda disappointing that basically all possible outcomes from our BR roo would throw black. Not that we are breeding, but still.

We didn’t end up with a lot of different variants when it comes to our EE girls. A couple black, a couple white, a couple creams. I’m happy to post some pictures of them tomorrow during the day, but here is a picture of our EE roo.

edit: that picture actually also shows a few other of our EE hens.

 

[NatJ]

It’s kinda disappointing that basically all possible outcomes from our BR roo would throw black. Not that we are breeding, but still.

There are a number of genes that control where the black goes on a chicken (with gold or other colors going in places the black does not.) But the one that makes black go everywhere is dominant over all the others. So the only things that make a visible difference are genes that cause something over the black (like white barring) or genes that change the black (like blue).

here is a picture of our EE roo.

Ooh, you'll get some other colored chicks from him!

For one thing, he has the blue gene, which dilutes all the black on the chicken to shades of gray. He will give that to half of his chicks, no matter what hens he is bred with. Plus he shows plenty of rgold, so with many of the hens there will be chicks that show gold (red and brown are "gold" with modifiers, so I'm just saying "gold" for the whole spectrum.)

EE rooster x Lavender Orpington, half of chicks black, half of chicks blue, no white barring on any of them.

EE rooster x Jubilee Orpington, half of chicks with some pattern of gold and black, half of chicks with some pattern of gold and blue. ("some pattern of..." meaning that many feathers will have both colors, although it will probably not be a recognizable laced or spangled or penciled pattern.)

EE rooster x Cream Legbar, half of chicks with gold and black, half with gold and blue. The gold/black parts are likely to be arranged similarly to the way they are on the Legbar hens and the EE rooster. Sons will have white barring (inherited from the Legbar mother), daughters will not (that's an effect of barring being on the Z sex chromosome: I can give more details of how it works if you want.)

EE rooster x Swedish Flower hens, a bit harder to predict because they have some possible variations. The "flower" spots will not appear. Probably half the chicks will show some black, while the other half will show some blue. If any hens show gold, then their chicks will too.

EE rooster x Salmon Faverolles hens, daughters will look similar to their Faverolles mothers but with more gold/red color, and half of them will have the black replaced with blue. Sons will probably look similar to the EE rooster (half with black, half with blue), but I expect them to show a light cream-ish color in place of some of the red/gold shades.

EE rooster x EE hens, many of the chicks will look like their mothers, but you are likely to get some like their father and some with various mixes of traits.

edit: that picture actually also shows a few other of our EE hens.

The black EE hens may produce black chicks with either rooster (all with white barring if the BR is the father, no barring but half with blue if the EE is the father). They may also have the genes to produce other colors of chicks with the EE rooster (such as his own coloring), but you won't know for sure unless you try it.

I see one EE hen that is splash colored (light gray, with bits of black or dark gray sprinkled here and there.) Bred to the BR rooster, all of her chicks should be blue with white barring. Bred to the EE rooster, she could produce chicks that are splash like herself, chicks that are all blue, and I can't tell whether she's got the genes to produce any chicks that look like their father. If she produces any chicks like him, she could also produce chicks that are like him but have splash in place of the blue areas.

I can't decide whether the hen at the very top of the photo is an EE or a Cream Legbar. Either way, she's got gold & black, so breeding with the EE rooster should also produce chicks with gold & black on them, and chicks with gold & blue. I think she has white barring, so that would appear in her sons but not her daughters.

There's one behind the rooster's breast, with red feathers and a black tail and yellow legs with a red band. Breeding her to the EE rooster will produce chicks with black & red/gold. They may have black just in the tail and a few touches in other places (like the hen) or they may have more black (like the EE rooster). Half of the chicks will have the black areas changed to blue.

 

[Bumbles]

I am DROOLING over your knowledge. This is so exciting for me to learn. And you are explaining in a way that I’m understanding. I’ve been reading a ton of posts and most are not going in depth OR they are going too in depth ie leaving it at zZ zW (or something to that effect). You taking the time to give me an answer and also explain the reason behind that answer is absolutely phenomenal. I truly appreciate it! You would make a fantastic teacher (if you’re not one already haha)

mind if I post a couple more pictures for you? If not, it’s so not a big deal. You’ve given me so much information to work with as it is and I know how time consuming it is to go that in-depth via text

 

[Bumbles]

I see one EE hen that is splash colored (light gray, with bits of black or dark gray sprinkled here and there.)

I can’t tell you how excited I was to read this. I’ve been trying to research the different feathering and I was telling my husband, a couple months ago, that I thought she may be splash. To read what you said meant that I have been retaining some information correctly! I’m so stinking happy right now!!!
seriously, thank you so much for taking the time for me.

 

[NatJ]

mind if I post a couple more pictures for you? If not, it’s so not a big deal. You’ve given me so much information to work with as it is and I know how time consuming it is to go that in-depth via text

More pictures, no problem.

I use a desktop computer. I can't imaging trying to type all that on a cell phone!

I am DROOLING over your knowledge. This is so exciting for me to learn. And you are explaining in a way that I’m understanding. I’ve been reading a ton of posts and most are not going in depth OR they are going too in depth ie leaving it at zZ zW (or something to that effect). You taking the time to give me an answer and also explain the reason behind that answer is absolutely phenomenal. I truly appreciate it!

I try to remember what explanations made sense when I was first learning it

I can read and understand the technical language too, and sometimes it is very handy. For example, this chart would take up much more space if each term had to be defined each time:
http://kippenjungle.nl/sellers/page3.html

But if you don't already know the words, it's about as bad as trying to read something in a foreign language: pull out the dictionary or glossary, look up every word, then try to work out how those meanings fit together in the sentence.

You would make a fantastic teacher (if you’re not one already haha)

Maybe, if the students (like you) want to learn.
Not if I had to force students to learn things when they are not interested.

This is so exciting for me to learn.

A tool I have found useful is the chicken genetics calculator:
http://kippenjungle.nl/chickencalculator.html

I don't actually calculate offspring with it. I just use it to model what happens when I change one gene or another.

There is a column down the side that lists the abbreviation and name for each gene. Some of the names are obvious (like "blue" and "barring.") Some of the others, not so much.

But if I change just any genes in any of the dropdown boxes, the chicken picture changes to show what happens. Changing just one at a time has really helped me learn the effects of many of the genes. (But there are some that have different effects depending on what other genes are present-- some of those still give me trouble.)

So for example, the first box, e+/e+ is the default. All the default genes are the ones found in the wild Red Junglefowl, and are marked with +. Saying e+/e+ means the chicken has two copies of that gene. If I change it to E/e+ that means a chicken still has one copy of that gene, but the other parent gave them E (Extended Black). There are quite a few other genes in that specific dropdown box. Any chicken has two of them, but there are a lot more than two options to pick from! They all have some effect on how the gold & black are distributed on the chicken. Your Barred Rock should have E/E, and your Cream Legbar should have e+/e+, so E/e+ is what their chicks will have. As you can see, they look black.

Further down the list, b+ is the gene for not-barred. Changing it to B adds white barring on the chicken. This gene is on the Z sex chromosome, so males can have two (B/B) while females can only have one (B/-). That's where the ZZ and ZW you mentioned come in-- ZZ are the male's sex chromsomes, ZW are the female's sex chromosomes. W doesn't appear to carry any genes that anyone cares about, so it can pretty much get ignored (except for the fact that it makes a chick female.)

Even further down, bl+/bl+ is a chicken that has two genes for not-blue. If I change it to Bl/bl+ the chicken will have all black areas changed to blue. If I change it to Bl/Bl, all the black areas are changed to splash.

I can’t tell you how excited I was to read this. I’ve been trying to research the different feathering and I was telling my husband, a couple months ago, that I thought she may be splash. To read what you said meant that I have been retaining some information correctly! I’m so stinking happy right now!!!
seriously, thank you so much for taking the time for me.

 

[Iluveggers]

Following! I posted a similar question a few weeks ago and am waiting for my chicks to hatch how. (Reading other similar threads). I have an OE roo (black barred, from a cuckoo Marans hen & Legbar roo), two EE roos (similar color to yours), and a buff Orp roo. Hens are pretty much every breed & color, and I have no idea which eggs I set since we have about 50 hens.

After this hatch, I’m hoping I’ll be able to tell a little from the chicks, but only keeping them for 2-3 days (have 2 buyers lined up).

Just following along with you to see what you get from your combinations, too!

 

[Drumming feet]

You could mix a third with a Bar with another chicken so three chickens would make a colored barring

 

[Drumming feet]

I'm thinking of mixing a Barred Rock with an Easter egg. I'm thinking of mixing a friend that has Speckles on it with an Easter egg or. Then I wanted to see how those two mixes would turn out together.