Dark of Night, eyes closed-"Big Jake"

[Wyorp Rock]

If you're wanting to treat for worms, then I would use Safeguard (Fenbendazole) instead of Ivermectin.
Give him the Amoxicillin orally, as you have found it doesn't dissolve. If you need to mix the powder in just a bit of liverwurst, cat food, etc and see if he will eat it.
His facial tissue surrounding the eyes look swollen - have you added any new birds recently?
Is the inside of his beak clear of canker or lesions? Does he have any cough or rales?

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[Cobra96]

If you're wanting to treat for worms, then I would use Safeguard (Fenbendazole) instead of Ivermectin.
Give him the Amoxicillin orally, as you have found it doesn't dissolve. If you need to mix the powder in just a bit of liverwurst, cat food, etc and see if he will eat it.
His facial tissue surrounding the eyes look swollen - have you added any new birds recently?
Is the inside of his beak clear of canker or lesions? Does he have any cough or rales?

The BYC video upload does not work. You will need to upload to YouTube and provide a link.

If you feel it's necessary to contact me privately, you can send me a Conversation here on BYC. There should be an envelope icon beside your user name at the top.

 

[Cobra96]

I can't get Safeguard here in WA State, for chickens. The VET PACS sewed up a lot of medicines. New laws force a Vet visit, with animal, typically $150 and up, then they sell the Safeguard poultry meds to you, from their office. Held off ordering through mail, because I didn't think he'd even make it this far. ( know nothing about any laws regarding getting Safeguard by mail)
Wife got 10 small ones, Fuzzy chicks) about 5 months ago, from her mom's place, now this.

Three small 1-2 pounders went down, splayed legs, good appetites, but unable to walk. Tried similar meds, but it was clear those new ones ( after 3 months of feed and vigorous growth) would not make it. They were immediately separated, when spotted. At first, I thought trauma, something got them,,,we have every predator here and the chickens free range.
Jake just slowed down and you know his symptoms. All the others seem okay to this point.

Ivermectin is only game now and it's very hard to find too, have been trying past week, can't get it for poultry and near a city of 300,000. It's all over the place for livestock.

I've been dissolving the Amox capsule grains as much as possible. He drinks most of it, but have been thinking about backing off, because I've seen no real change in symptoms, except after the mite treatment. I wonder if remaining mites, or perhaps some worm/bug, might be inflaming his face?

Yes, I know there's merricks, but her mom has 30 birds, none in bad health.

Face is and seems swollen to me too. He ate vigorously tonight, scrambled eggs and I put the Vitamin E gel ( 400IU) on the eggs and he ate it all. He then drank the Vitamin B Complex, (1/4 pill, dissolved in water) as you suggested. He also ate new chick starter you suggested, seemed to 'wolf' it down.
His crop is full and will get first chance to check it in am. Have not checked for lesions inside beak and I suppose that's very hard to do, as he can struggle pretty well. But I'll try to take a look in the am.

He has no cough or rales and simply has held 'steady' after the mite medicine improvement. I wonder if he might have more mites but can't see any, anywhere.

if you think a video might be helpful in diagnosing, I think I could attach it to an email. Unfortunately, I know little about Youtube tech.
Continuing thanks.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

A lot of medications were taken off the shelves a couple of years ago.
I don't remember Fenbendazole or Ivermectin ever being packaged exclusively for Poultry. A lot of things are use "off label".
Ivermectin Pour On for Cattle has been used for years in treating lice/mites and certain worms in poultry. It seems like it's lost it's effectiveness for treating most worms in poultry but still is probably effective on Roundworms. It's still seems to do a good job on lice/mites. Pour On dosing is 0.09ml per pound of weight administered along the base of the neck. It does need to be in contact with the skin, so part the feathers and make sure it has contact. Repeat in 10-14 days.

Fenbendazole that is commonly used for poultry is found in the goat section (Liquid Goat de-wormer) or you can find paste in the horse section. I pulled one of my previous posts for you that has dosing info.

Since you lost some birds earlier in the year that lost the use of their legs, you may be dealing with Marek's, but without testing/necropsy it would be just a guess.

I hope you start to see some improvement for Jake. A lot of times it's just guess work on our part.

If you are going to de-worm him, then get some Safeguard liquid goat de-wormer or Safeguard Equine Paste and give him the correct dose - .23ml per pound of weight given orally once a day for 5 days in a row.

 

[Cobra96]

A lot of medications were taken off the shelves a couple of years ago.
I don't remember Fenbendazole or Ivermectin ever being packaged exclusively for Poultry. A lot of things are use "off label".
Ivermectin Pour On for Cattle has been used for years in treating lice/mites and certain worms in poultry. It seems like it's lost it's effectiveness for treating most worms in poultry but still is probably effective on Roundworms. It's still seems to do a good job on lice/mites. Pour On dosing is 0.09ml per pound of weight administered along the base of the neck. It does need to be in contact with the skin, so part the feathers and make sure it has contact. Repeat in 10-14 days.

Fenbendazole that is commonly used for poultry is found in the goat section (Liquid Goat de-wormer) or you can find paste in the horse section. I pulled one of my previous posts for you that has dosing info.

Since you lost some birds earlier in the year that lost the use of their legs, you may be dealing with Marek's, but without testing/necropsy it would be just a guess.

I hope you start to see some improvement for Jake. A lot of times it's just guess work on our part.

 

[Cobra96]

Thanks Wyrop,
His crop was much smaller this am. If that means something.

He also crowed about 30 times, eliciting about 20, "Fun to You", comments from various household members, while you could hear things falling in adjoining rooms. Still puzzled as to their wishing I might "Have Fun" at 4:30 am.

I don't know why he suddenly crowed so many consecutive times this particular a.m.

It's been generally under ten. It is extremely windy outside, noisy. But his appearance is the same.

I'm headed to get some equine paste and will feed orally and just hope some sort of worms have caused the head and eye swelling and can be addressed with that paste.

Here in WA State, all the feed dealers claim you can get the powder poultry wormer from 'The vet' I've called many dealers, including adjoining Idaho. In Idaho, they say they 'Just don't have it', in WA they say, 'You have to get it from vet'. So, I'm no specialist in med supplies, that's just what they say.

I guess you just force the beak open to look in there for lesions and such? Which I will do soon, but might as well get the paste first. ( only such dewormer anywhere near my place)

We'd had chickens here for 35 years, off and on and I don't recall ever losing one because it was sick. Just predators. So, this is new to me.

Dairied for decades. And I learned about midway through those years, a little secret. Calves die from scours at about 15% on most places. You can drop that to 2%, and less,real easy, simply by giving 5-6 common aspirin, at first sign and even works if calf is down and looking finished. Few dairy farmers even know about it. I 'stood up' around 25 'down calves' one time, just with Bayer aspirin. Then you cut milk to a quarter and slowly bring them up, with only one or two more aspirin.

I was hoping there might be some 'magic' like thing for Jake, but poultry is a whole different deal.

So, there's nothing left to do for him, but the paste and will give it a shot.

You have gone 'beyond the call', i thank you for your patience.

 

[feather13]

@Cobra96: I'm so sorry to hear about your rooster and hope he's doing better this morning. Glad you're getting some advice from experts here. I'm new to chicken keeping, so sometimes I read threads, but because I have nothing knowledgeable to contribute, I don't respond. That's why your post may have been read so many times with few responses.

Although your rooster is sick and that's a serious thing, I also just want to say how engaging your writing is and your reports about how the other folks in your house are responding to Jake's crowing. Good luck and keep us posted on his recovery!

 

[Cobra96]

@Cobra96: I'm so sorry to hear about your rooster and hope he's doing better this morning. Glad you're getting some advice from experts here. I'm new to chicken keeping, so sometimes I read threads, but because I have nothing knowledgeable to contribute, I don't respond. That's why your post may have been read so many times with few responses.

Although your rooster is sick and that's a serious thing, I also just want to say how engaging your writing is and your reports about how the other folks in your house are responding to Jake's crowing. Good luck and keep us posted on his recovery!

 

[Cobra96]

Well, thank you for your interest in "Big Jake" and his well being.

As to writing, I'm merely trying to convey it appears it's not just me in the house, concerned about Jake at 4:30 am.

Just this morning several people shouted down, "Go out to the well!" as well as encouraging me with, "Fun to you!",, though it's hard to hear everything said, what with lamps and chairs falling upstairs and in other rooms.

I assume they're hurrying to come down to the living room to help Jake.

That old farmhouse living room 'echos', so they should be able to hear his condition in the a.m. anyway. ( I did go 'out to the well', but nothing seemed amiss at the pump/pressure tank)

Having 'fun' at 4:30 a.m. seems a a hard wish, since with Jake crowing, coffee brewing and waking up, it's just not the time for enjoyment. But I appreciate all their encouragement.

Oddly, after wishing you to 'have fun' at sunrise, most household members later seem to 'scowl' and say little to me in the morning anymore. Perhaps they feel disappointed in me as I have not been able to cure Jake. So, I try to comfort all of them with the promise....

"He should be fine in a year or so" and then,,, "Back in his coop".

( obviously I don't know that time frame or that Jake will be 'okay' but want them to hold hope and I think it helps them all to know... we're in this together )

Still, they do glance at Jake's crate, for what looks like loving moments and long, extended, looks of deep concern. And it has certainly given me comfort to have all the support.

Sometimes, all of them, just standing there, staring intently, endlessly in wonder at Jake, their morning coffee cups shaking, drips falling from the cups, pajama legs spotted, listening to Jake 'sing', turning their heads sideways to the 'song' ,waiting for the sun to peek out, all of us,,together.

I do seriously hope Jake recovers, but I admit it's not looking all that good right now. And thank you for your kind words.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Sometimes, all of them, just standing there, staring intently, endlessly in wonder at Jake

Are you sure they aren't standing there and wondering what time supper is?!
Sorry, I couldn't help myself LOL

I do hope you start to see some improvement. I know it's concerning when one is not feeling well. Some of mine are more pet than livestock and I probably spend more time worrying, observing (looking at poop too) and puzzling over behavior than most.

The crowing...haha! Well. That's a rooster for you. Mine start up somewhere around 4am. I used to have one that seemed to crow on cue at 2am every morning - the morning I didn't hear that 2am crow, there was trouble and I was right. Sadly I lost him. I do take some losses harder than others, but have learned to accept there are just some things I can't fix regardless of what I do or try. I'm constantly learning, BYC is great for this - the sharing and wealth of information is just wonderful.

Keep us posted!