Decrowing Roosters.

[gryeyes]

Well, gather up some stones and get ready to throw them at me.

I have had two dogs "de-barked.". Prior to doing this, I thought it was cruel. How mean! Just so you don't have to hear a dog do what it does, which is bark? What meanies? Horrific!

I have dachshunds. I lived in a mobile home community. Dacschunds tend to bark, a very shrill and obnoxious bark to some folks. And they often bark at air, or leave sfalling, or the sound of cars driving by slowly or stopping.

One of my neighbors threw poisoned meat over the fence into my yard. Pretzel ate it. I got hi to the vet in time, they pumped his stomach, he recovered. My vet - had her for YEARS - recommended debarking. What!?!? Yes. She ONLY performed the procedure on five breeds: dachshunds Akitas, collies, Irish Setter and I forget the last one. These are known excessive barkers. With homes so close together nowadays, dogs can be nuisances. She explained the procedure, which is really shaving the vocal "cords" to drop the register from shrill to hoarse.

Had I not had it done to Pretzel, and then to Zorro, I would have been evicted due to neighbor complaints. Or possibly had another poisoning event.

So its cruel, huh? I beg to differ. I have since moved, Pretzel has passed, and Zorro now has a another doxie partner, Dooley. I live in the country and Dooley has his original voice, but he's a larger doxie and has more of a "hound" bark, not the shrill, yappy bark Pretzel and Zorro used to have.

I strongly recommend nay-Sayers do some research before decrying the procedure(s) as cruel and inhumane. One should also walk in another's shoes a bit, too. You don't know the circumstances and you don't know the distress experienced by someone living in the situation.

As I've posted before, I think this is wonderful. I am pleased to now "know" a BYCer who has a decrowed rooster. I know another who desperately wanted to keep his rooster and had a different vet operate on him. Unfortunately, that rooster did not survive the procedure.

There qre more things in this universe than you or I understand. Don't look down your nose at someone because YOU don't understand the necessity. So don't de-crow your rooster, okay? Nobody is making you do it. That's your choice. If I or anybody else wants to do so, sit on your hands and save your indignation for another situation.

Sorry I am cranky - I am normally a much nicer person. Wagging your finger at me makes me poke one of mine right back atcha.

 

[centrarchid]

First rock right between the eyes. I know the birds' requirements for space and their capacities to make noise. For brief period around getting married we lived in a small house with small yard in town. Many of my birds were brothers care at that time and planned long-term breeding project was not initiated until after move to rural location where acreage and space are not issues. Needs of animals relative to resources at hand were considered first.


This not just about desires of the pet owner. I am pretty certain if my birds could voice their opinion, they would prefer my investing in more suitable location over being de-crowed by surgical or confinement means.

 

[RachaelS]

Well, gather up some stones and get ready to throw them at me.

I have had two dogs "de-barked.". Prior to doing this, I thought it was cruel. How mean! Just so you don't have to hear a dog do what it does, which is bark? What meanies? Horrific!

I have dachshunds. I lived in a mobile home community. Dacschunds tend to bark, a very shrill and obnoxious bark to some folks. And they often bark at air, or leave sfalling, or the sound of cars driving by slowly or stopping.

greyes,

I am making an assumption here and I hope I don't offend you. Based on your living situation, I am guessing you did not have money free flowing. When your dog was poisoned you could have just allowed it to die, rather than pay an ER visit to your vet. In addition to this, some with limited finances would have just surrender their dogs to the pound, or worse just dropped them off somewhere. However, in both cases you made the unselfish act of spending whatever it took to protect the animals in your care, you should be commended for that, no stones here.

I truly hope that those out there casting judgment never have to make some of the heart wrenching decisions that others have to. Everything is relative until it happens in your own house.

 

[blobear23]

When you accept a pet into your life you also must accept the cost f caring for that pet. Not just every day expenses such as food and water but also unexpected expenses such as damage to property, training, and vet bills(recurring and emergency). That's why I tell my kiddo that no pet is free! Good for you for taking the responsibility of good pet ownership!!

 

[Kassaundra]

I really don't understand why people stalk threads they dislike. I see this a lot and it confuses me everytime. If you don't like a topic being discussed I can see voicing that opinion if it is important to you but don't understand the need or desire to repeatedly go back and be negative time and time again. It reminds me of the saying "the dog returning to it's vomit".

 

[RachaelS]

It reminds me of the saying "the dog returning to it's vomit".

LOL, never heard that one

 

[mrsmccunn]

I have an appt with Dr James next week with my little roo. This is only chance I have of keeping him. He is a beloved pet and I am trying to protect his life that I took on as a pet owner. If any interes

 

[mrsmccunn]

If anyone is interested I will be happy , with Dr James permission, to share my experiences in this adventure. I consider it an elective procedure, not unlike many patients go thru in our world of medicine . I applaud Dr James in pioneering this.

 

[Victoria-nola]

I apologize for the length of this report, but I figure people might want the information. You should have seen the first draft!

As I’ve mentioned a couple of times, I drove my very sweet, lovable rooster to Dr James to have the crow softening surgery, which occurred June 20, or 24 days ago. We loved his crowing, and all our neighbors loved his crowing, except for one neighbor, the newest one, who’s been heard to say, “I just want more control”.

Deeply concerned, I found Dr James’ thread and read up on this possibility. My partner and I agreed that we really wanted to keep our rooster. I moved Dred (the roo, as in dredlocks) to a foster home in the country, and made arrangements with Dr James. The week prior, I took Dred to the parish (county) extension agent in charge of chickens, who took blood and tested for pullorum, issued a health certificate, and put a band on Dred’s leg. The test was free, the certificate was $24.

Dr James’ office staff were friendly and sympathetic, and I really liked Dr James. You know how vets often have a single animal species that they really resonate with, even though they can treat all animals? Dr James is like that about chickens. He really likes them. He genuinely would like more people to be able to keep chickens and to have the whole life-cycle of chickens if people wish. His desire to help with a crow-softening is purely a desire that more roosters could live out full lives. So number one, Dr James is a really nice, thoughtful person whose heart is totally in the right place, and whose skills are very highly developed (he makes his own surgical implements for this surgery). The idea that some have expressed that he may be only doing it for the money is absurd, considering the amount of time he had to spend to arrange the whole thing with me, and the training and study he’s done, the money is not a lot; and moreover, if Dr James didn’t charge for his services he couldn’t stay in business, and that wouldn’t help anyone.

The procedure was done under proper sterility and anesthetic. I went to visit a local archeological site and returned several hours later to find Dred awake and alert. Dr James talked with me about how it went, what to expect in the next few days, and specifically about clipping the stitch that was holding some bandaging in place but that would need to be released after 24 hours.

During the healing process Dred made various sounds, including some gurgling sounds that came and went, but after the first week the only sounds we heard were his deliberate voicings. The gurgling was part of the healing but isn’t there any longer.

Dr James suspects that the less a rooster crows (or attempts to crow) during the first 3 weeks after the procedure, the more successful the procedure will be. Accordingly, I kept Dred indoors and put him in a good-sized crate, and controlled the light he got to minimize the desire to crow. I cut a piece of foam-core poster board and used zipties to create a false, lower ceiling in the crate in order to prevent Dred from stretching out his neck completely, since one of the suggested ways to keep a roo from crowing is to put the roost so close to the ceiling that the roo can’t stretch out enough to crow. After the first couple of days, he did still find ways to crow, but not as robustly as usual, and the sound was very airy and not loud. I took him out of the crate every day to flap his wings, stretch, and walk around; we also provided him with lots of tempting healthy goodies, including filtered water, organic grain, probiotics and nuturitional supplements, fruits and vegetables, and dried mealworms.

The night we got back I clipped the stitch, and after it came out Dred cuddled his body close against me, put his head on my shoulder, and just hugged me like that for some long minutes.

Suffice to say, we hated keeping him confined but it didn’t make any sense to us to spend all that time and money and then not follow through and give it the best possible shot we could. We wanted Dred to succeed and get back to his family. Dr James observes that older roosters have less easy success with this procedure than younger ones do (they can tend to regain more voice), and our Dred is 2 years old, so we wanted to give him every chance.

After two weeks, we just couldn’t take it any more and I took him outside to his girls. When I carried him out the sidedoor and he recognized where he was, he squirmed and I set him down, and he hit the ground running full bore out to the yard. He was and is still ecstatic, and the girls were stunned to see him-- chicken love ensued immediately. They congregated the instant he showed up and have remained a single flock since then; during Dred’s absence they had disintegrated and didn’t keep together while out ranging during the day.

While Dred was in foster care, we put up privacy fencing on our side of the chainlink fence that separates our property from the controlling neighbor. So once we released Dred back into our yard, the neighbor could no longer easily gaze and watch our business. We have heard nothing from that neighbor (I knock wood) since releasing Dred 10 days ago. So, I cautiously say that it seems to be working.

Sound levels: If anything, Dred’s crow has gotten even softer since he moved outdoors. I don’t know how that could be, but it seems so. We hear him crow, but it’s so attenuated, so airy and light, that it doesn’t carry far, whereas he previously had this huge forceful sound that would carry a long way.

Behavior: The girls still love him. He still does all the things he used to in terms of watching out for them and finding food. He rounds them up when it’s time to roost, and he periodically checks during the day and brings in the stragglers who might wander. He still makes the range of sounds he always did, and he’s still audible enough to communicate with the hens. He’s the same as he used to be on the roost, where he rotates which hen is his favorite.

How do I feel? Well, Dred trusts me now-- he was wary before (and I of him). I had been afraid his personality might change as a result of all this, but it didn’t. If anything, since he now trusts me and got to know, while indoors, that the dogs are harmless, he’s even more laid back than he was.

I wish we hadn’t been forced into this, but we were, and I’m just deeply grateful that Dr James had talked about his procedure on backyardchickens.com, and that I found the discussion, and that I followed through, and that we still have our wonderful rooster. I wish Dred still had his full voice, but that wasn’t possible if he was to stay with his family, and I saw with my own eyes his ecstatic joy when he realized he was back at home with his ladies.

So yes, this is not a procedure for agricultural operations, but presumably such operations don’t have neighbors who have a right to complain. This is a procedure that can allow a rooster to stay in a family who has a pet or backyard chicken coop in the suburbs or the city, or that can allow a family to buy a rooster who has already had the procedure, with the knowledge that the rooster’s calls won’t become a problem in the future. I am grateful, so very grateful.

 

[Ohgrr]

Very interesting. I think it is a valid option for people who need it due to situation. My only concern is that many city laws are about roosters in general and not about noise. If this catches on then I'm sure laws could change to reflect. However, I'd hate to see someone spend money only to lose it. For the right circumstances I'm sure it is a better alternative for some folks.

For the people being nasty in this thread... That isn't how to influence people, it just hardens them. Try and be more respectful and you'll find people will care about your passionate positions that much more.

I'm blessed with country life and roosters all around me. However, if I had to kill Shadow it would really bum me out. Probably not to the tune of $150 but that is me, not an issue with the procedure.