Decrowing Roosters.

[mrsmccunn]

City Rooster
PM Dr James. He might be able to tell you of a vet in AZ
He is the bluedogsonly on the forum

 

[Victoria-nola]

Hello,

I am in Arizona, Do you know of any vets out here that can perform this surgery? Please advise, we love Boss.

Dr James has verified, previously in this thread, that the vet in Phoenix who taught him the surgery is Dr. Babcock. Should be able to look him up.

We love our Dred and we are so very happy that he is staying with us and with his ladies.

--Victoria

 

[Ramblin Rooster]

I apologize for the length of this report, but I figure people might want the information. You should have seen the first draft!

As I’ve mentioned a couple of times, I drove my very sweet, lovable rooster to Dr James to have the crow softening surgery, which occurred June 20, or 24 days ago. We loved his crowing, and all our neighbors loved his crowing, except for one neighbor, the newest one, who’s been heard to say, “I just want more control”. 

Deeply concerned, I found Dr James’ thread and read up on this possibility. My partner and I agreed that we really wanted to keep our rooster.  I moved Dred (the roo, as in dredlocks) to a foster home in the country, and made arrangements with Dr James. The week prior, I took Dred to the parish (county) extension agent in charge of chickens, who took blood and tested for pullorum, issued a health certificate, and put a band on Dred’s leg. The test was free, the certificate was $24.

Dr James’ office staff were friendly and sympathetic, and I really liked Dr James. You know how vets often have a single animal species that they really resonate with, even though they can treat all animals?  Dr James is like that about chickens.  He really likes them.  He genuinely would like more people to be able to keep chickens and to have the whole life-cycle of chickens if people wish.  His desire to help with a crow-softening is purely a desire that more roosters could live out full lives. So number one, Dr James is a really nice, thoughtful person whose heart is totally in the right place, and whose skills are very highly developed (he makes his own surgical implements for this surgery). The idea that some have expressed that he may be only doing it for the money is absurd, considering the amount of time he had to spend to arrange the whole thing with me, and the training and study he’s done, the money is not a lot; and moreover, if Dr James didn’t charge for his services he couldn’t stay in business, and that wouldn’t help anyone.

The procedure was done under proper sterility and anesthetic. I went to visit a local archeological site and returned several hours later to find Dred awake and alert.  Dr James talked with me about how it went, what to expect in the next few days, and specifically about clipping the stitch that was holding some bandaging in place but that would need to be released after 24 hours.

During the healing process Dred made various sounds, including some gurgling sounds that came and went, but after the first week the only sounds we heard were his deliberate voicings. The gurgling was part of the healing but isn’t there any longer.

Dr James suspects that the less a rooster crows (or attempts to crow) during the first 3 weeks after the procedure, the more successful the procedure will be.  Accordingly, I kept Dred indoors and put him in a good-sized crate, and controlled the light he got to minimize the desire to crow. I cut a piece of foam-core poster board and used zipties to create a false, lower ceiling in the crate in order to prevent Dred from stretching out his neck completely, since one of the suggested ways to keep a roo from crowing is to put the roost so close to the ceiling that the roo can’t stretch out enough to crow. After the first couple of days, he did still find ways to crow, but not as robustly as usual, and the sound was very airy and not loud. I took him out of the crate every day to flap his wings, stretch, and walk around; we also provided him with lots of tempting healthy goodies, including filtered water, organic grain, probiotics and nuturitional supplements, fruits and vegetables, and dried mealworms. 

The night we got back I clipped the stitch, and after it came out Dred cuddled his body close against me, put his head on my shoulder, and just hugged me like that for some long minutes.

Suffice to say, we hated keeping him confined but it didn’t make any sense to us to spend all that time and money and then not follow through and give it the best possible shot we could. We wanted Dred to succeed and get back to his family. Dr James observes that older roosters have less easy success with this procedure than younger ones do (they can tend to regain more voice), and our Dred is 2 years old, so we wanted to give him every chance.

After two weeks, we just couldn’t take it any more and I took him outside to his girls.  When I carried him out the sidedoor and he recognized where he was, he squirmed and I set him down, and he hit the ground running full bore out to the yard. He was and is still ecstatic, and the girls were stunned to see him-- chicken love ensued immediately.  They congregated the instant he showed up and have remained a single flock since then; during Dred’s absence they had disintegrated and didn’t keep together while out ranging during the day.

While Dred was in foster care, we put up privacy fencing on our side of the chainlink fence that separates our property from the controlling neighbor. So once we released Dred back into our yard, the neighbor could no longer easily gaze and watch our business.  We have heard nothing from that neighbor (I knock wood) since releasing Dred 10 days ago. So, I cautiously say that it seems to be working.

Sound levels: If anything, Dred’s crow has gotten even softer since he moved outdoors.  I don’t know how that could be, but it seems so. We hear him crow, but it’s so attenuated, so airy and light, that it doesn’t carry far, whereas he previously had this huge forceful sound that would carry a long way.

Behavior:  The girls still love him.  He still does all the things he used to in terms of watching out for them and finding food.  He rounds them up when it’s time to roost, and he periodically checks during the day and brings in the stragglers who might wander. He still makes the range of sounds he always did, and he’s still audible enough to communicate with the hens. He’s the same as he used to be on the roost, where he rotates which hen is his favorite.

How do I feel?  Well, Dred trusts me now-- he was wary before (and I of him). I had been afraid his personality might change as a result of all this, but it didn’t.  If anything, since he now trusts me and got to know, while indoors, that the dogs are harmless, he’s even more laid back than he was.

I wish we hadn’t been forced into this, but we were, and I’m just deeply grateful that Dr James had talked about his procedure on backyardchickens.com, and that I found the discussion, and that I followed through, and that we still have our wonderful rooster. I wish Dred still had his full voice, but that wasn’t possible if he was to stay with his family, and I saw with my own eyes his ecstatic joy when he realized he was back at home with his ladies. 

So yes, this is not a procedure for agricultural operations, but presumably such operations don’t have neighbors who have a right to complain. This is a procedure that can allow a rooster to stay in a family who has a pet or backyard chicken coop in the suburbs or the city, or that can allow a family to buy a rooster who has already had the procedure, with the knowledge that the rooster’s calls won’t become a problem in the future. I am grateful, so very grateful.

Thank you very much for making this detailed testimonial, and now I am quite sure this is what I will be doing.

 

[Victoria-nola]

Quote:

<snip>

So yes, this is not a procedure for agricultural operations, but presumably such operations don’t have neighbors who have a right to complain. This is a procedure that can allow a rooster to stay in a family who has a pet or backyard chicken coop in the suburbs or the city, or that can allow a family to buy a rooster who has already had the procedure, with the knowledge that the rooster’s calls won’t become a problem in the future. I am grateful, so very grateful.

Thank you very much for making this detailed testimonial, and now I am quite sure this is what I will be doing.

You're welcome. It's now been 18 days since we returned Dred to his family and the neighbor has not complained (knock wood). My partner was out front this morning and the neighbor and he chatted for a while about this and that-- the neighbor didn't mention any problem so we are starting to breathe normally about it. I would tend to recommend simply returning the bird to the yard without seeking permission from any problem neighbors-- on the principle that it's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission. If it gets brought up, one would then simply say something along the lines of, "We had a procedure done on the rooster and we were hoping it was enough...".

We are tickled to death with the whole thing. Oh, and, part of the reason we couldn't handle keeping Dred confined any longer than the first 2 weeks was because his comb started to look very faded, which alarmed me. His comb is vibrantly red again, maybe redder than ever. And the girls are demonstrably happier-- they are getting more friendly with me!

 

[mrsmccunn]

LittleBit is still in postop low cage confinement. He is 8 days postop. He is allowed to free range near dusk. When he goes to roost we put him and his BFF into an inside low cage. They go out midmorning. BFF hen goes free and decrowed roo goes into low cage in coop
BFF stays right next to him all day. He tries to do a crow posture but still makes no noise ex air. With the low cage, he has little opportunity to posture. He is all roo when free ranging! We are very happy so far!

 

[treetrunks]

I know a few people in the North Island of New Zealand who show their roosters. they have been de-crowed and to be honest after studying them I could not see any change in behaviour at all. The hens dont act any different around the roo. I have to put mine to sleep in the laundry every night because the crowing annoys the neighbours. I would have the surgery done, I know birds and anasthesia don't go together very well compared to other animals. But I would take the risk. After all I want to breed my birds, the roo looks after his ladies, I like having a couple of roosters as they look great with the girls And you could liken the surgery to be similar as getting your tonsils out.
I don't think they will do it down here, they would rather contain them in battery cages and call their eggs free range as a main producer of so called free range eggs does in the South Island, but that is another topic which I could

and get so

about

 

[bluedogsonly]

Good to hear the the roosters are doing well.

Never been to New Zealand, but if they were as crazy about "chooks" as they are in Australia there probably is a need for this surgery down there.

Thanks all for the questions.

Dr. James

 

[chippysmom327]

I don't care what my neighbors think. All my neighbors except one like my chickens, and they can take a hike if they don't like it (which they don't). They're annoying, so we let our roo make all the noise he wants to make them mad! Their dog used to poop in our yard and bark all hours of the day, so it's payback.

ETA: I think it's great if you need to save the life of your rooster though!

 

[Victoria-nola]

I don't care what my neighbors think. All my neighbors except one like my chickens, and they can take a hike if they don't like it (which they don't). They're annoying, so we let our roo make all the noise he wants to make them mad! Their dog used to poop in our yard and bark all hours of the day, so it's payback.

ETA: I think it's great if you need to save the life of your rooster though!

Here in New Orleans they passed an ordinance that took effect in March 2013 that outlaws roosters in the parish (county). However, it's based entirely on whether a neighbor complains or not. If a neighbor complains, animal control (LA/SPCA) investigates and if a rooster is discovered (in one case it was a hen and the neighbor didn't have a valid complaint), the owner has 15 days to get the rooster out of the parish. In one case the complaint is about a wild rooster that animal control has not been able to locate(!) (we have a huge number of feral chickens here). There have been 8 complaints between March 2013 and July 2013. LA/SPCA says their goal is to relocate roosters "out of the parish to a more appropriate setting."

So basically, if no neighbor complains, animal control is not looking to do anything about it. But there's the rub. As soon as the ordinance passed, my neighbor complained to me, telling me it was illegal (hinting that he would make an official complaint if I didn't fix it). Since we know that moving roosters to outside the parish is no guarantee the rooster will stay alive, and because we adore our rooster, we had this procedure done.

btw, the article in the local newsweekly mentioned backyardchickens.com as a source of information , it's on page 9 of the July 30 edition: www.bestofneworleans.com. They see now they actually put in a typo in the website name, backyardchicken.com. I'm going to write them and get them to correct the online version.

 

[mrsmccunn]

LittleBit, my decrowed too, is 3 wks postop. He is thriving! He is a raging mess of teenage hormones and driving the girls crazy with his silent attacks! His crow is soft and does not carry far.