Decrowing Roosters.

[RachaelS]

De-crowing is cruel and against the law in many places. Many vets will refuse to do such a procedure. De-barking a dog is also cruel and again illegal most places. Cropping dogs ears is banned in several places and is becoming unacceptable. It amazes me what people will do to animals and nature for their personal fulfillment.

Let a rooster crow as a rooster or don't own one.

Out of curiosity, what facts do you base your opinion this is cruel? Have you seen the birds after the procedure is done? What indication have you seen in them that they in pain or change their behavior in any other way?

 

[miquwid]

My boy is very healthy and happy, has 16 very fiesty girls to watch over.

 

[Victoria-nola]

To 4 the Birds:

Your statement that de-crowing is illegal is not the case. There are no such laws, in fact poultry have virtually no rights in the agribusiness chicken world and new rules have just come out that allow further speeding up of lines and abuse of poultry in slaughterhouses. Do you really think a world that allows de-beaking as routine procedure cares about de-crowing? Or that laws care about roosters, who are routinely tossed, live newly hatched, into trash bins and death grinders in battery cage operations and even some so-called "free-range" operations? It is true that in former years some methods were used to attempt to soften rooster crows that are barbaric torture, but that is not what we are discussing.

That said, your statements indicate you don't know what is actually involved with the procedure that Dr James offers. Birds and dogs do not have the same mechanism for their voice, it's not the same to compare with de-barking. As was already mentioned, the rooster can still crow, just less air passes through and it's not as loud. All other behaviors of the rooster are completely intact, whatever those were before are the same after. I wrote the following description of our experience with it. I am re-posting it now fyi.

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As I’ve mentioned a couple of times, I drove my very sweet, lovable rooster to Dr James to have the crow softening surgery, which occurred June 20, or 24 days ago. We loved his crowing, and all our neighbors loved his crowing, except for one neighbor, the newest one, who’s been heard to say, “I just want more control”.

Deeply concerned, I found Dr James’ thread and read up on this possibility. My partner and I agreed that we really wanted to keep our rooster. I moved Dred (the roo, as in dredlocks) to a foster home in the country, and made arrangements with Dr James. The week prior, I took Dred to the parish (county) extension agent in charge of chickens, who took blood and tested for pullorum, issued a health certificate, and put a band on Dred’s leg. The test was free, the certificate was $24.

Dr James’ office staff were friendly and sympathetic, and I really liked Dr James. You know how vets often have a single animal species that they really resonate with, even though they can treat all animals? Dr James is like that about chickens. He really likes them. He genuinely would like more people to be able to keep chickens and to have the whole life-cycle of chickens if people wish. His desire to help with a crow-softening is purely a desire that more roosters could live out full lives. So number one, Dr James is a really nice, thoughtful person whose heart is totally in the right place, and whose skills are very highly developed (he makes his own surgical implements for this surgery). The idea that some have expressed that he may be only doing it for the money is absurd, considering the amount of time he had to spend to arrange the whole thing with me, and the training and study he’s done, the money is not a lot; and moreover, if Dr James didn’t charge for his services he couldn’t stay in business, and that wouldn’t help anyone.

The procedure was done under proper sterility and anesthetic. I went to visit a local archeological site and returned several hours later to find Dred awake and alert. Dr James talked with me about how it went, what to expect in the next few days, and specifically about clipping the stitch that was holding some bandaging in place but that would need to be released after 24 hours.

During the healing process Dred made various sounds, including some gurgling sounds that came and went, but after the first week the only sounds we heard were his deliberate voicings. The gurgling was part of the healing but isn’t there any longer.

Dr James suspects that the less a rooster crows (or attempts to crow) during the first 3 weeks after the procedure, the more successful the procedure will be. Accordingly, I kept Dred indoors and put him in a good-sized crate, and controlled the light he got to minimize the desire to crow. I cut a piece of foam-core poster board and used zipties to create a false, lower ceiling in the crate in order to prevent Dred from stretching out his neck completely, since one of the suggested ways to keep a roo from crowing is to put the roost so close to the ceiling that the roo can’t stretch out enough to crow. After the first couple of days, he did still find ways to crow, but not as robustly as usual, and the sound was very airy and not loud. I took him out of the crate every day to flap his wings, stretch, and walk around; we also provided him with lots of tempting healthy goodies, including filtered water, organic grain, probiotics and nuturitional supplements, fruits and vegetables, and dried mealworms.

The night we got back I clipped the stitch, and after it came out Dred cuddled his body close against me, put his head on my shoulder, and just hugged me like that for some long minutes.

Suffice to say, we hated keeping him confined but it didn’t make any sense to us to spend all that time and money and then not follow through and give it the best possible shot we could. We wanted Dred to succeed and get back to his family. Dr James observes that older roosters have less easy success with this procedure than younger ones do (they can tend to regain more voice), and our Dred is 2 years old, so we wanted to give him every chance.

After two weeks, we just couldn’t take it any more and I took him outside to his girls. When I carried him out the sidedoor and he recognized where he was, he squirmed and I set him down, and he hit the ground running full bore out to the yard. He was and is still ecstatic, and the girls were stunned to see him-- chicken love ensued immediately. They congregated the instant he showed up and have remained a single flock since then; during Dred’s absence they had disintegrated and didn’t keep together while out ranging during the day.

While Dred was in foster care, we put up privacy fencing on our side of the chainlink fence that separates our property from the controlling neighbor. So once we released Dred back into our yard, the neighbor could no longer easily gaze and watch our business. We have heard nothing from that neighbor (I knock wood) since releasing Dred 10 days ago. So, I cautiously say that it seems to be working.

Sound levels: If anything, Dred’s crow has gotten even softer since he moved outdoors. I don’t know how that could be, but it seems so. We hear him crow, but it’s so attenuated, so airy and light, that it doesn’t carry far, whereas he previously had this huge forceful sound that would carry a long way.

Behavior: The girls still love him. He still does all the things he used to in terms of watching out for them and finding food. He rounds them up when it’s time to roost, and he periodically checks during the day and brings in the stragglers who might wander. He still makes the range of sounds he always did, and he’s still audible enough to communicate with the hens. He’s the same as he used to be on the roost, where he rotates which hen is his favorite.

How do I feel? Well, Dred trusts me now-- he was wary before (and I of him). I had been afraid his personality might change as a result of all this, but it didn’t. If anything, since he now trusts me and got to know, while indoors, that the dogs are harmless, he’s even more laid back than he was.

I wish we hadn’t been forced into this, but we were, and I’m just deeply grateful that Dr James had talked about his procedure on backyardchickens.com, and that I found the discussion, and that I followed through, and that we still have our wonderful rooster. I wish Dred still had his full voice, but that wasn’t possible if he was to stay with his family, and I saw with my own eyes his ecstatic joy when he realized he was back at home with his ladies.

So yes, this is not a procedure for agricultural operations, but presumably such operations don’t have neighbors who have a right to complain. This is a procedure that can allow a rooster to stay in a family who has a pet or backyard chicken coop in the suburbs or the city, or that can allow a family to buy a rooster who has already had the procedure, with the knowledge that the rooster’s calls won’t become a problem in the future. I am grateful, so very grateful.

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UPDATE: Neighbor is happy, Dred is happy, the girls are happy. WE ARE HAPPY! And a further note: The foster home in the country, where I placed Dred while we waited for the time for the procedure, the folks there have since lost the property and had to disperse all their animals into new homes. So if I'd left Dred there, he'd have been dispersed once again. At our house he is with his same girls, he has stability, and a happy family. And only because of Dr James is it possible.

 

[donrae]

De-crowing is cruel and against the law in many places. Many vets will refuse to do such a procedure. De-barking a dog is also cruel and again illegal most places. Cropping dogs ears is banned in several places and is becoming unacceptable. It amazes me what people will do to animals and nature for their personal fulfillment.

Let a rooster crow as a rooster or don't own one.

Please provide references where this is illegal.

 

[miquwid]

Well said victoria-nola! We bought a Golden Duckwing Leghorn that was de-crowed by Dr. James. This has been a blessing for us. I have 16 hens a mixed flock and 6 of them are very fiesty hybrids Amber Sex Links who were out of control but sweet to us. Rajesh came into our lives and I thought I wanted him to breed more hybrid layers. But what I learned was I needed him to help keep the piece, chase away squirrels, gather up the gang at night, give the girls treats that he finds, help my younger girls fit into the flock, and most importantly protect them from predators. I love him so much for what he does for girls. My chickens give me eggs, the compost for me keep the bug population down, and truth be told some will end up on the dinner plate along with their offspring. But regardless the problem is we cant all live in the counrty and societies have changed and we need to do what is best for our flocks and lives.

Like I said this is a true blessing and I cannot thank Dr. James enough.

 

[striperon]

I have no idea about decrowing roosters, but dog tail docking and ear cropping is banned or restricted in many countries. I have an English Springer Spaniel from Sweden and she has a full tail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dockin..._dog_tail_docking_and_ear_cropping_by_country

 

[insanity]

Today I am sending a polish roo to "the farm in the country". Without this operation my little Daryl would be joining him on this one way trip. Daryl is well adjusted after surgery and will hopefully enjoy a full long life. The polish will not. How much simpler does it have to be said, this operation can save lives.

 

[bluedogsonly]

Thanks all for the comments. Also, to those that I've dealt with, I'm wondering if you guys would be willing to be references and/or send some feedback on the website http://www.quietroosters.wordpress.com. Just contact me through it.

I still have the full brother to Daryl that needs to find a flock.

Thanks.

Dr. James

 

[miquwid]

• striperon

Tail docking and ear cropping is a cosmetic surgery, while this procedure is for the sake of being able to have a flock of chickens with a rooster in close living situations so that I don't have to relay on someone every February/March for new egg layers when I can simply hatch my own. Wondering if this is illegal is some countries should not be your main concern but to ensure that all animals get a chance at a good life should be the main focus. This is not a novelty but a way to keep the backyard flock going. The point is we all can't live on 100 acre farms but we should be allowed the chance to know at least where some of our food comes from, and to find out how awesome it is to have a rooster in a flock and what he does for the flock. This is a service that we have been blessed with and should look at with an open mind. If you would like I left some feedback on the website and will be posting some images and videos soon.

• Victoria-nola also has some great things to say about this as well.

Thanks
Miquwid

 

[striperon]

I have no problem with the rooster surgery. Just citing info on dog surgery.