Decrowing Roosters.

[Victoria-nola]

Eburger-- Just a note that Dr James has a variety of roosters that have already had the procedure done, you can buy one from him directly. I personally think that's a better idea, it's certainly less expensive overall. I'm the one who wrote the long opus about my journey with our roo up to see Dr James and how grateful and happy we are that we got it done. Dr James has a very strong affinity for chickens and seems to have a knack for socializing excellent roosters-- he also does not tolerate aggression and would never pass along a roo without an excellent temperament. He is also very willing to talk with people about what they are looking for in a rooster and choosing accordingly. One indication of just how good he is-- he's got a pen with a large number of roosters all together, and they DO NOT FIGHT.

But yes, Dr James told me, and has written here, that if he hadn't seen the procedure done and learned from the originator of it (your same vet), he wouldn't feel confident to do it. It's extremely delicate.

--Victoria

 

[bluedogsonly]

I hate to hear about failures with this procedure. But it does happen. I actually lost one the other day. I learned something and adjusted my anesthesia protocol and it really seemed to work well. I'm probably going to be using a combination of injectable and gas anesthetic on client birds. I've even been modifying the technique I use. Time will tell with it, 1 bird is crowing and virtually silent. One I haven't seen try even though he is older but very quiet cackles. The other 2 were lost to an extremely smart owl that figured out that if it flew into the door of the pen a specific way it would open. You never stop learning and I don't think this procedure is something that can be perfected. I'm just practicing and trying to improve it.

There will always be risk, just like any other surgery. That must be taken into consideration when looking into this for your personal bird. I think that the better option (and yields better results) is to buy a rooster that has already had this procedure done and has been confirmed quiet. Removes the personal risk.

I appreciate the complements above but I am no chicken whisperer. I think that I have fewer man-fighting problems is that I do not handle them very much. It seems that they will maintain a better respect (predator/prey) if they are raised as chickens with chickens. Horses, cattle, dogs, llamas etc can be unpredictable and even dangerous if they don't know their place in their species' society and where that falls in human society. Everybody's seen the evil little dog that was raised as a "baby", it still has the same mentality as the pit bull down the road but never learned the rules of society because it was brought up as a toy. I'll take the pit bull that grew up in an appropriate environment any day. Sorry about the soap box.

Thanks all for listening and hesitate with questions.

Dr. James

 

[Alia]

100% positive.

If I had the choice between 1) definitely dying and 2) maybe dying and if I live, getting to live with a big flock of hens and mating all day long and being worth $200, I'd choose option number 2. I'd even choose option number 2 if the vet was doing it the easy cheap way and going in and physically burning my syrinx (I actually learned how to do this some time ago) as some people have done to their parrots (costing me my whole voice, not just my crow). I would choose to live. Nature + logic + HUGE reproductive viability = sane choice.

The people who are cruel are the ones who decide that constantly barking dogs don't disturb the peace, but that a rooster crowing isn't okay. The reason there's no option 3 for the rooster not to risk death and get to keep his crow isn't the backyard chicken keepers; they don't make the laws. You can't fault them for not choosing option 3 when there isn't an option 3. And I hope you realise that option 4, "Just don't keep a rooster at all." inherently comes with the rooster you would have kept being ground up into paste as a biddy. For every pullet, a cockerel hatches out too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/01/chicks-being-ground-up-al_n_273652.html

This is what a rooster has been saved from by the existence of the decrowing procedure. Watch this video and then tell me decrowing is "cruel". It is, at very worst, the lesser of two evils.

P.S. Bluedog is right about man-fighting. He's absolutely right and I've seen it. If the rooster thinks he's a person, he attacks a human because he sees the human as another chicken. I still raise mine VERY tenderly, though. I like to have them as tame and loving as possible. Nothing bad happens to hens from being toys, because they just don't seem to have that same degree of innate aggression. Dogs do, roosters do... So I agree it's not a good idea for them to be babied. And it's not just for the sake of my intact eyeballs. The rooster who sees me as another chicken isn't going to be happy unless he becomes dominant over me and chases me away once and for all. Since that can't happen there just has to be distance.

 

[foghornleghorn9]

They seem to be more important to the hens in a wild setting or a true free range setting. They will protect the hens but in many, many cases they also bully and terrorize the hens. I recently gave away 2 roosters and my hens in that coop are thriving. Their egg production is up and they are no longer so flighty. I have kept my silkie roosters since they are not loud and aren't as abusive as my other roos. Even the silkie roos do treat the hens poorly though. It's a mans world, lol...........................

 

[heatherschicks]

Do you ship to california i live near fresno and was wondering shipping cost

 

[Eburger]

Thanks for the info. I will see what the future holds as far as being able to buy something out of city limits.

 

[Skink]

If you can't handle crowing, you shouldn't have a rooster. If an animal needs to be modified to fit your situation, then it is not the animal for you. They're not square pegs to trim up until they can fit in to a round hole. There are nonsurgical options to reducing crowing as well, which are much more economical, but it still stands that the norm should be No Crowing = No Rooster, and that is a No Brainer.

This isn't something that would be done to "save rooster lives." That's such a transparent buzzline. Someone has a pet rooster they love a ton but can't keep? It's going to end up re-homed with someone who can deal with an unaltered rooster, not in the icebox. If you love your pet, you do what's right for them. Sometimes that means not keeping them. Taking away the vocal communication of a verbally social creature is not the right choice for your pet, it is the selfish choice. Backyard keepers don't need a rooster, either. Chances are, if they go for it, it's FOR his voice. Nice, loud, and capable of keeping their hens safe, especially since a lot of the sweet, tame layer breeds popular with backyard keepers are dead to the world around them in their mellowness. Shocker, people raising flocks for slaughter are going to be unwilling to drop a several hundo on quieting down the boys 'til processing day.

The vast majority of people shelling out the high bill for a decrowed rooster are going to be in it for the novelty, ducking under the radar of law enforcement where roosters are outlawed, or otherwise making the choice to selfishly mold an animal to their needs through risky surgery rather than just sticking to animals that fit their needs unaltered. Shameful to see strawman bites like "well look what hatcheries do to cockerels!" or "It's better than dying!" I guess everyone voting positive was a vegan who thinks every chicken comes from the hatcheries they spend great energy denouncing the practices of at times other than when it's convenient, huh? Lesser of two evils, puh. Don't settle for cruelty period.

Putting an animal under the knife for a risky operation to take away something that is integral to their behavior and does not threaten their quality of life inherently just so you don't have to let it out of your grasp isn't ok. If you love your rooster so much, see them to a good home where he can be a rooster. If you're content to make excuses for your selfish actions because your wants matter more to you than the well being of the animal, don't act shocked when people see it for what it is.

 

[highcountrybell]

wow. very interesting stuff. way to be on the innovator side of a new technique. if you know a rooster wont work for you then you should prob just stay away from them, but say you love your rooster but its noise is no longer ok/welcome this would be amazing as opposed to having to lose your rooster.

 

[dretd]

If you can't handle crowing, you shouldn't have a rooster. If an animal needs to be modified to fit your situation, then it is not the animal for you. They're not square pegs to trim up until they can fit in to a round hole. There are nonsurgical options to reducing crowing as well, which are much more economical, but it still stands that the norm should be No Crowing = No Rooster, and that is a No Brainer.

Hi Skink! I was wondering if you could elaborate on the nonsurgical options you referred to that reduce crowing. There are many who would like alternatives and you appear to have some techniques that would benefit those with roosters. Perhaps you could share your personal experiences with roosters on what worked for you?

 

[insanity]

Skink,
I am the proud owner of 2 altered roos. I did purchase them post surgery they were not my "prized pets" I was trying to save.They enable me to hatch new hens for my small farm flock, supply me with a few males for processing, and protect my flock. As I live on a 3 acre lot in a subdivision my neighbors would not appreciate an intact roo....so compromise is necessary. Both roos are still capable of vocals (alarms, here is a goodie ladies, and even crowing) but the sound is reduced and doesn't carry as far. Neither seems bothered by the surgery and live normal lives.
While it seems you will probably not agree I would like to point out this surgery is no different then spaying or neutering. It is standard to dock tails on sheep, ears, tails,and dewclaws on dogs, and de-claw house cats. All these procedures are strictly cosmetic but widely accepted.Countless animals are altered to suit human preference on a daily basis. At least this isn't a cosmetic choice.
Basically I guess what I want to say is if you think it's wrong don't get a decrowed roo. I am against the cropping and docking of dogs so my Australian Shepard still has her tail but I don't voice my opinion on pro docking sites.