Deep Bedding/Litter Problems? Check Your Food!

[Dreammaker]

Hi, everyone!

If, like me, you use the deep bedding method (often called "Deep Litter"--to be honest, I never know what to call it), and you've been having issues... Don't give up!

I was at my wit's end about a month ago. We had a layer of pine shavings and hemp several inches deep in our coop and I turned it over every 2-3 days. No matter how much ventilation I had in there (a lot!), no matter how much I topped off the shavings, it was gross. Nothing was breaking down the way proponents of this method swear it does and I had had enough. The bedding/litter could not keep up with the poop.

I started thinking... "Gosh, you know, the chickens have been pooping way more with this new feed (it had been about 3 months on this brand)... And they eat and drink way more too, like they can't get enough... It's like they're eating the chicken equivalent of fast food... Their droppings are bigger and nastier than ever...This sucks; I'm done!"

So, I switched brands (I hate to badmouth a brand that others may like, but feel free to ask me). And almost immediately, everything is better:

1.) They eat less (I truly believe this is a good thing; they're not starving for nutrients)
2.) They drink less (they still drink plenty, but before it was like they couldn't quench their thirst)
3.) They poop less and when they do, it's smaller, better formed, and less smelly.
4.) They look better--combs and wattles are rosier and less dry looking.
5.) Their eggs are great

And.... just when I thought I was having a nervous breakdown, cursing Matt from Carolina Coops for fooling me into the Deep Litter Method...

6.) Their bedding/litter works!!! I turned it once this week and it was totally fine. I really didn't need to. It barely looked soiled. Everything just breaks down now! There are fewer flies! Just so much better!

So please do not give up hope on the Deep Bedding/Litter method without first looking at your birds' feed. If you're seeing some of the issues I was, their diet may be a big part of it, not the shavings, hemp, etc. I am by no means an expert and can't begin to make recommendations for what a particular person should feed their flock, but I had to share my thoughts and would love to know if anyone has had a similar experience.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Name and Shame, @Dreammaker - we alll benefit from shared experience. What feed were you using, and what did you swap to? Its possible you had a bad bag, of course - particularly with the pandemic, we've seen some bags on shelves that look like they were rediscoverd while shoveling out an archeological dig site - and what did you swap to?

 

[TheFatBlueCat]

Very interesting! I have noticed differences in poop structure and smell depending on what I have been feeding, but never considered it in regards to deep bedding (which I also use).

Thanks for this observation.
In my experience my chickens have the least objectionable poop when they are fed 50% soaked/fermented grains plus peas, 50% dry of the same, with meat and bone meal and seaweed meal. Second is what they currently eat, a high quality brand of 50% grower pellets and the same brand 50% meatbird crumble. This brand has meat bone and blood meal in it.
They just flat out refuse to eat any other brand of pellet I've offered them.

 

[Dreammaker]

Name and Shame, @Dreammaker - we alll benefit from shared experience.

Fair enough - Here goes:

Let me preface by saying I'm not a brand snob when it comes to anything. I see no reason to buy something "premium" if a cheaper brand works just as well. That said, if it will help others...

Old stuff - Blue Seal Extra Egg layer pellets
New stuff - Nutrena Hearty Hen layer pellets

I don't intend to bash Blue Seal because for all I know, there are folks here who use their feed without issue. Maybe it's a problem with that specific type and the rest of their product line is better. I don't think it was an issue with the batch I used, as my problems with it spanned a few months/bags, purchased from a few different retailers.

I saw that Blue Seal was widely available at feed stores near me (both TSC and smaller, local stores) and thought I'd try it out. Saw "good reviews" and gave it a go. Well, obviously it didn't work for me. I decided on the Nutrena because a woman at a feed store mentioned it as a better brand when I was lamenting about my problems and told her about Blue Seal (which she flat-out said was "crap food"--ouch!) Nutrena's Hearty Hen formulation appealed to me because it has a higher protein content than most of the layer feed out there (18% vs 15-16%). Someday, I may opt for an all-flock feed from Nutrena and continue to offer calcium sources on the side (ex: if they're molting and I want to up the protein even more). For now--granted, it's still early--I'm very pleased.

It's incredible what poop tells us, isn't it?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Yes - I consider droppings one of the best indicators of flock condition actually, since the birds are so good at hiding injuries and illness unless extremely severe. TY for sharing your experience

 

[3KillerBs]

If, like me, you use the deep bedding method (often called "Deep Litter"--to be honest, I never know what to call it),

Just as a FYI:

Deep Bedding: A dry, non-composting system where you keep adding bedding to the coop as it becomes soiled -- managing it by turning it as necessary (or getting the chickens to turn it for you) -- and clean it out only infrequently when the bedding has become both thoroughly soiled and piled up to the point of not being able to add more. Usually used above a floor in the coop but *can* be done in a covered run over dirt in a favorable climate.
Deep Litter: A moist (not wet, moist), system where the lower layers of material are actively composting while new, dry material is continually added to the top. *Can* be done on any floor surface but is most readily accomplished on a dirt floor because the dirt will seed the material with the beneficial composting organisms.

I've never seen a difference in the management of my bedding or litter with different feeds, but I did notice that the one time I bought an emergency bag of cheap layer feed from Wal-Mart when I couldn't get to the farm store before it closed my chickens went through the 50lbs in only about 3/4 of the time they'd have gone through their regular all-flock.

I suspect that they tried to make up for the lower quality of the nutrition by eating more.

 

[Dreammaker]

I suspect that they tried to make up for the lower quality of the nutrition by eating more.

Thanks for the clarification on bedding vs. litter.

What you say above was exactly my gut feeling about my chickens. It's understandable why I, and probably many other relative newcomers, would think a feed is great when their birds seemingly can't get enough. When really, what they probably aren't getting enough of is nutrition.

 

[xeno0323]

How do I get Deep Bedding going in a raised coop with a wooden floor? We just put the chicks out there yesterday and I've been using pine shavings, just like I did in their brooder tub.

 

[Dreammaker]

How do I get Deep Bedding going in a raised coop with a wooden floor? We just put the chicks out there yesterday and I've been using pine shavings, just like I did in their brooder tub.

So, to start, we coated our floor with Black Jack rubber coating (it's basically like paint). I didn't want the bedding and droppings sitting on bare wood. Some use linoleum. It might be ok on a wooden floor though. Then, we added a layer of pine shavings and hemp bedding about 4-5" deep to start and every few weeks, I top it off with more hemp, adding 1/2"-1" at a time. I had some pine shavings already in there, so that's why ours is a mix. I haven't decided whether I like pine or hemp; I think the latter. Every few days (1-2×week), I turn it over with a long rake or shovel, but the birds help with that process too just by walking around.

 

[avjudge]

So, to start, we coated our floor with Black Jack rubber coating (it's basically like paint). I didn't want the bedding and droppings sitting on bare wood. Some use linoleum. It might be ok on a wooden floor though. . . .

I used several inches of shredded cardboard & paper bedding on a wooden floor, and the wood stayed clean.

This was a winter coop (in the summer they have a chicken tractor and poultry netting) and the chickens were in there nights from December to mid April. I completely emptied it a week or two ago. I never did add additional bedding on top of the original layer. While the nights were below freezing I would use a manure fork to scoop the worst of the poop under the roost; when nights were above freezing I just let the chickens do their chicken-scratching thing to mix bedding and manure. I would check under the roost before closing up at night to make sure they hadn’t left some floor exposed in their scratchings. Nonetheless, I was surprised at how clean the floor was after shoveling and vacuuming - much cleaner than the rest of the barn floor, but maybe that’s not saying much!