Deworming DD: Cecal worm or Capillaria? Individual/Whole Flock?

[HoopyFrood]

I've identified an individual in my backyard flock of 8 that has enough worm load to have pooped out living, wriggling worms. I've seen it twice, both times in cecal poop. The worms are very, very thin. Clearish or whitish? 1cm long or less. She's in good health otherwise. 14 months old. Everything seems normal including regular laying (yesterday, in fact. The second wriggly poop was this morning, the first last week). I have not witnessed any other chickens with wormy poop; but that doesn't mean much. They seem to die or at least disappear very quickly (seconds). I've had free choice garlic out and ACV water since then; but looks like medicinal intervention is needed now.

The past 2-3 weeks have been very ususually wet, probably frequently driving a large number of earthworms up into their yard. And slugs abound...

Reading articles I can't tell if it's cecal worms or capillaria. Can anyone help me with differential diagnosis?

I found a picture of cecal worms here:
https://www.heritageacresmarket.com/how-to-deworm-chickens/

It definitely looked *something* like that. Hard to tell when when it's mired in cecal poop on the ground! I haven't found any good comparison picture of capillaria. Since the worms were in the cecal poop is it a safe assumption to make that they are cecal worms (i.e. capillaria would be thriving elsewhere before hanging out in the ceca)?

I ask because I already have Safe-Guard (liquid dewormer for goats, 10% sol fenbendazole). I know the recommended dose is 0.23ml /lb body weight per day, for five days for capillaria. For cecal worms it seems it's the same dosage, but just once followed by a repeat treatment in 10 days.

If it is capillaria, wouldn't I need to treat the whole flock too? If it's cecal worms, would I just treat the one individual? Although I'm loath to dose all of them, I will do exactly that, if that's what makes sense.

I have very little experience where worms are concerned! Thank you very much!

 

[nuthatched]

I'd treat everyone, it won't hurt. And its likely they all have some.
Garlic is highly toxic in the levels it takes for even mild anthelmintic qualities and ACV doesn't do a single thing for worms.

 

[HoopyFrood]

I'd treat everyone, it won't hurt. And its likely they all have some.
Garlic is highly toxic in the levels it takes for even mild anthelmintic qualities and ACV doesn't do a single thing for worms.

Ah. I had heard only just recently that ACV wasn't effective on worms. I kept them on it because I figure it can't hurt; just a gut biome/immune system assist. Like the garlic. But I hadn't heard of toxicity of garlic to chickens! Not that we give them much. But I had better go dig up some data on that front! Thank you for the heads up.

Whole flock makes sense. Yippee

Any guess on the DD for cecal worms vs. capillaria? I only have an uninformed gut feeling that if there were enough capillaria to come out in poop, they would already have been causing problems in the respiratory and/or upper digestive tract...

Thank you for the reply!

 

[dawg53]

Worm all your birds orally for 5 days straight using a syringe without a needle. That way you know they got properly wormed. Five days is all that is needed to eliminate all types of poultry roundworms.

 

[nuthatched]

Worm all your birds orally for 5 days straight using a syringe without a needle. That way you know they got properly wormed. Five days is all that is needed to eliminate all types of poultry roundworms.

Do you know what the dose is off the top off your head?

 

[nuthatched]

Ah. I had heard only just recently that ACV wasn't effective on worms. I kept them on it because I figure it can't hurt; just a gut biome/immune system assist. Like the garlic. But I hadn't heard of toxicity of garlic to chickens! Not that we give them much. But I had better go dig up some data on that front! Thank you for the heads up.

Whole flock makes sense. Yippee

Any guess on the DD for cecal worms vs. capillaria? I only have an uninformed gut feeling that if there were enough capillaria to come out in poop, they would already have been causing problems in the respiratory and/or upper digestive tract...

Thank you for the reply!

No problem. I only know because I had time to kill last winter and decided to research things like that. Quite the rabbit hole. Garlic is toxic in amounts greater than 0.5 percent of an animal's weight, which for chickens is roughly a half ounce fresh, which is 65% water, and about a third ounce dried garlic. It's it doesn't have eaten in one dose.https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/trouble-in-parasites.78256/

 

[HoopyFrood]

No problem. I only know because I had time to kill last winter and decided to research things like that. Quite the rabbit hole. Garlic is toxic in amounts greater than 0.5 percent of an animal's weight, which for chickens is roughly a half ounce fresh, which is 65% water, and about a third ounce dried garlic. It's it doesn't have eaten in one dose.https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/trouble-in-parasites.78256/

That's actually a much lower threshold than I expected!

Thank you for the link. Very helpful!

Any thoughts on how long the compounds that cause toxicosis accumulate in their systems? We've never given anywhere near that, of course. But would a little bit over consecutive days add up cumulatively?

Regardless, I'll make sure no more garlic! Thank you!

 

[HoopyFrood]

Worm all your birds orally for 5 days straight using a syringe without a needle. That way you know they got properly wormed. Five days is all that is needed to eliminate all types of poultry roundworms.

Thank you for the reply! We have an oral syringe and will use it

The Safe-Guard label calls for (and many BYCers agree) a doseage of 5mg/kg (2.3mg/lb). But there are other recommendations in the 5-day course to dose much higher. For example, 10-50 mg/kg here.

What dosage would you use?

 

[nuthatched]

That's actually a much lower threshold than I expected!

Thank you for the link. Very helpful!

Any thoughts on how long the compounds that cause toxicosis accumulate in their systems? We've never given anywhere near that, of course. But would a little bit over consecutive days add up cumulatively?

Regardless, I'll make sure no more garlic! Thank you!

I don't think it accumulates if the dosages are small, I think it metbolizes relatively quickly but I'll have to research more into that. From what I've read, it can take up to 3 days for for symptoms to start showing after a large amount.

 

[HoopyFrood]

I don't think it accumulates if the dosages are small, I think it metbolizes relatively quickly but I'll have to research more into that. From what I've read, it can take up to 3 days for for symptoms to start showing after a large amount.

Thank you very much! They won't be getting any more. There are plenty of holistic herbs and roots that AREN'T toxic. Sheesh... STILL learning... Thanks again for the correction