Egg-topsy help [photos]

[vasher]

Hi!

This is my first hatch ever, and I'm kinda bummed. 6/6 bantam eggs made it to lockdown (Day 18) with nice big developing moving chicks at Day 17. 3 pipped on day 19, hatched on day 20. The remaining 3 eggs never pipped. I pried one's aircell open and found this:







It seems fully formed and ready to go, positioned where it should be, but never internally pipped and died.

The enclosing membrane seems to be on the tough side, but the chick itself is pretty wet. Humidity issues? At what stage? Lockdown was around 75%, sometimes a little higher with the hatching ones. Thank you for your help!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Hope this helps.
http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00008570/00001/3j

 

[vasher]

Ok, with looking at that document and a bit more research, I'm leaning towards high humidity on day 1-18, and/or egg/breeder issues.

Though, I'm not sure how having too much humidity would affect an unpipped chick.. They are not breathing air yet even from the air cell, so having a little bit more water should not matter, one would think. But, maybe it swells the chick so they have trouble moving?

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Ok, with looking at that document and a bit more research, I'm leaning towards high humidity on day 1-18, and/or egg/breeder issues.

Though, I'm not sure how having too much humidity would affect an unpipped chick.. They are not breathing air yet even from the air cell, so having a little bit more water should not matter, one would think. But, maybe it swells the chick so they have trouble moving?

So by the mark on the eggshell, if that is your air cell size for lockdown, I would definitely say your humidity was too high during the first 17 days. If you are running high humidity during incubation the moisture in the air will prevent the egg from loosing the proper moisture which in turn will prevent that air cell from growing. This air cell is important. Come hatch time those chicks are going to attempt to pip up into it. If it is not drawn down enough, they are not going to make the pip and they will die. If they manage to make the pip and the excess fluid from the shell leaks into the internal pip hole they will drown on the excess fluid. High humidity/small air cells also often leads to overgrow/swollen chicks that can not turn to the air cell when it is time and will remain malpositioned come time to hatch.
I think you might benefit from taking a look at this: http://letsraisechickens.weebly.com...anuals-understanding-and-controlling-humidity

 

[AmyLynn2374]

What was your humidity over the first 17 days?

 

[vasher]

So by the mark on the eggshell, if that is your air cell size for lockdown, I would definitely say your humidity was too high during the first 17 days. If you are running high humidity during incubation the moisture in the air will prevent the egg from loosing the proper moisture which in turn will prevent that air cell from growing. This air cell is important. Come hatch time those chicks are going to attempt to pip up into it. If it is not drawn down enough, they are not going to make the pip and they will die. If they manage to make the pip and the excess fluid from the shell leaks into the internal pip hole they will drown on the excess fluid. High humidity/small air cells also often leads to overgrow/swollen chicks that can not turn to the air cell when it is time and will remain malpositioned come time to hatch.
I think you might benefit from taking a look at this: http://letsraisechickens.weebly.com...anuals-understanding-and-controlling-humidity

Thank you! The lower mark is at Day 14, and seemed a little small but not terrible.

It was around 40RH for incubation, dropped it down to 20% between day 14 and 17 to try and shrink the cells, but they barely budged. Definitely a learning experience. Though! Some of the eggs had great big air cells, and I suspect those were the ones to hatch. It seems very odd to me as they all came from the same chicken, so you'd think they had the same shell thickness, and it's a forced air incubator.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Thank you! The lower mark is at Day 14, and seemed a little small but not terrible.

It was around 40RH for incubation, dropped it down to 20% between day 14 and 17 to try and shrink the cells, but they barely budged. Definitely a learning experience. Though! Some of the eggs had great big air cells, and I suspect those were the ones to hatch. It seems very odd to me as they all came from the same chicken, so you'd think they had the same shell thickness, and it's a forced air incubator.

Even the same chicken can vary slightly, but generally the eggs are fairly close quality. However, it is stated that the age of egg can also affect how well a chick develops and hatches. The longer in storage the less viable. I mark mine with the date I collect when I use my own eggs, which I haven't done enough hatches with my own eggs that I would draw a firm personal conclusion. I will say it's leaning toward the fresher the better. The first hatch with my own eggs was 100% all eggs collected under 10 days, so that didn't draw any conclusions. The last two have leaned toward the early quitters/DIS being predominantly the older, but again, all eggs under 10 days.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, how were they stored? The longer an egg is stored the more humidity it loses before it is even started in the incubator. If it is stored in really dry conditions it will lose more than if it is pretty humid. That’s one reason why there is no perfect humidity for all eggs. There are other differences too, like different porosities, but some just start out having already lost some humidity.

I store mine in the house at room temperature so the humidity is pretty low, but I never hold them longer than 7 days before they go in the incubator. I number mine 1 through 28 or however many I set, with 1 being the oldest. That way when an egg pips in the incubator I can tell by the number which one it is. That also allows me to see which hatch or don’t. I have paid attention to early or late and so far I really haven’t seen a difference.

 

[vasher]

About 8 days for the oldest and 1 day for the newest. They were loose in the next box until I collected them (hoping she would go broody). Humidity...hmm, around 45, I think, as they are in a pen right now indoors.

Looking into air cell sizes more: frequent weighing eggs seems like the ticket! At least, I am apparently terrible at eyeballing the right size even looking at diagrams. Also, I only had a little medicine cup of water in the incubator to get it up to 40%. So many guides recommend 50-60% humidity for incubation, and one popular method has it at 65% the whole time regardless of air cell size. It's crazy that ideal humidity can vary so much. I guess the only solution is to experiment and hatch more eggs.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Yes, how were they stored? The longer an egg is stored the more humidity it loses before it is even started in the incubator. If it is stored in really dry conditions it will lose more than if it is pretty humid. That’s one reason why there is no perfect humidity for all eggs. There are other differences too, like different porosities, but some just start out having already lost some humidity.

I store mine in the house at room temperature so the humidity is pretty low, but I never hold them longer than 7 days before they go in the incubator. I number mine 1 through 28 or however many I set, with 1 being the oldest. That way when an egg pips in the incubator I can tell by the number which one it is. That also allows me to see which hatch or don’t. I have paid attention to early or late and so far I really haven’t seen a difference.

I number mine too as well as date them. Number on one side, date of collection on the other and since I prefer to hand turn it works great! lol