emu chicks keep dying in the egg

[dimitrischri]

well, i have been incubating all kinds of eggs for the last 10 years, always using homemade incubators that i built myself, using quality electronic thermostats and thermometers to regulate the correct temperature and i have had a great success over the years hatching a lot of chicken, duck, quail, pheasant, partridge,guineafowl,turkey, peacock eggs, for the last 3 years i was experenenting with emu eggs, and although i ve some hatch successfully, in my last batch of 13 eggs i have had only 1 chick, 4 infertile/rotten eggs and 8 dead embryos, 3 of them were at the first days so when i open the eggs i only found some vains and a little bit of blood, The thing that bothers me tho is that from the rest 5 eggs 3 of them were fully completed emus and they died at the very last days of incubation, they also had the outer membrane piped put not the shell, the other 2 were dead by day 40 and when i open the egg were fully completed and clothed but smaller than a fully developed emu embyo, does anybody know why they keep dying inside the egg? i ve had this problem with other birds but in a very small percentage the only eggs that i have had such a big problem were pheasant eggs, is it something to do with the nutrition of the parents? i dont keep my own emus, i buy the eggs from a local who keeps 2 females and one male, ive seen the birds they seem healthy and happy, any solution? i also know about safety holes, but i didnt try it on an emu egg yet, do you guys believe that i have to open a sefety hole as soon as i hear the chick chirping inside the egg?
I keep the temperature at 36.3 celcius and i adjust the humidity from 30% to 60% to match the correct weight loss, i do weight the eggs once a week.
First 2 pictures are chicks that piped the membrane and died before braking the shell they died at around day 51,
last picture is a chick that died at around day 40.
Thanks!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

While most avian incubation conditions are similar, Ratites are a different animal than galliformes or waterfowl.
Since they are not your breeding stock, the first thing I would suspect is nutrition of the breeders. Do you know specifically what they are being fed?
How many times a day are you turning?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Nutrition is a key element of reproduction in all animals. With egg layers, while both parent should have good nutrition, at least 2 weeks prior to laying, a female's nutrition is ultimately important because that needs to be in the egg. Otherwise there isn't enough available to grow a vigorous embryo. It needs to be vigorous enough to develop properly and to be able to escape the egg.

 

[dimitrischri]

Thanks for you answer!
That means you have got to keep your own parents so you know what feed and supplements you are giving.

 

[Shoshannim55]

well, i have been incubating all kinds of eggs for the last 10 years, always using homemade incubators that i built myself, using quality electronic thermostats and thermometers to regulate the correct temperature and i have had a great success over the years hatching a lot of chicken, duck, quail, pheasant, partridge,guineafowl,turkey, peacock eggs, for the last 3 years i was experenenting with emu eggs, and although i ve some hatch successfully, in my last batch of 13 eggs i have had only 1 chick, 4 infertile/rotten eggs and 8 dead embryos, 3 of them were at the first days so when i open the eggs i only found some vains and a little bit of blood, The thing that bothers me tho is that from the rest 5 eggs 3 of them were fully completed emus and they died at the very last days of incubation, they also had the outer membrane piped put not the shell, the other 2 were dead by day 40 and when i open the egg were fully completed and clothed but smaller than a fully developed emu embyo, does anybody know why they keep dying inside the egg? i ve had this problem with other birds but in a very small percentage the only eggs that i have had such a big problem were pheasant eggs, is it something to do with the nutrition of the parents? i dont keep my own emus, i buy the eggs from a local who keeps 2 females and one male, ive seen the birds they seem healthy and happy, any solution? i also know about safety holes, but i didnt try it on an emu egg yet, do you guys believe that i have to open a sefety hole as soon as i hear the chick chirping inside the egg?
I keep the temperature at 36.3 celcius and i adjust the humidity from 30% to 60% to match the correct weight loss, i do weight the eggs once a week.
First 2 pictures are chicks that piped the membrane and died before braking the shell they died at around day 51,
last picture is a chick that died at around day 40.
Thanks!

Don't turn the humidity up for the hatch. Unlike other chicks turning up the humidity on emu eggs hardens the membrane and they will drown in the shell. Leave the humidity at 30 and you should have better results.

 

[dimitrischri]

thanks! but most of them do break the membrane, they just dont break the shell.
I suppose my question is why do complete chicks die in the shell?

 

[dimitrischri]

 I just saw this comment, i know he gives them chicken pellets (since we do not have any commercial ratite feed available here in Cyprus), they are around 18% protein, and i am sure he doesnt give supplements or vitamins, i have 2 incubators the one has automatic turning system so it turns the eggs every 120 minutes and i am turning the others in the other incubator manualy at least 4 times a day maybe more, i open both incubators 2 times a day for 30 seconds to replenish the oxygen

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Ok. The thing with ratites is that they don't necessarily need high levels of Crude Protein. What is more important is the quality of that protein. Crude protein percentage can be misleading. Birds have a different number of amino acids that are essential in their diet from mammals. In humans, there are 9 essential amino acids in the diet. In chickens, it is 13 and commercial feeds usually include synthetic lysine and methionine to make up for what is missing in the 18% CP from vegetative sources in the feed.
I'm not sure what amino acids are necessary in the diet of ratites but I will try to look it up.
Sometimes I will add animal protein to chickens' diets to compensate. Any form of animal protein is superior to vegetative sources (grains and legumes) to provide what omnivores like chickens need. Ratites have a preference for plants but they too are omnivores and I suspect they are primarily insectivores.
Aside from amino acids, a complete array of vitamins and minerals are essential for good hatchability. Off the top of my head, vitamins, A, D, E and B complex are important as are minerals like zinc, magnesium and manganese.