entire flock stopped laying except 2...

[GodofPecking]

according to capitalpress:

About 11,000 mink at an Oregon ranch died from feed contaminated with botulism, resulting in $2.8 million in losses to the grower, according to a lawsuit.

A complaint filed by the farm — AMC LCC of Mount Angel, Ore. — accuses the Northwest Farm Food Cooperative of gross negligence and breach of contract, among other charges, for supplying the tainted feed in 2016.

The National Food Corp., an egg producer, is also named as a defendant in the lawsuit because the tainted feed was allegedly manufactured from the company’s “spent hens” that have stopped laying eggs. An investigation later determined the disease was caused by botulism in the chicken meat.

I can't see how some fresh roadkill is going to cause problems, I can check it for freshness with the old nose test,. usually works. Except when I have a cold. then it's the look at it test.

One thing I can be sure of, I have no idea what the manufacturers are actually putting into commercial food, like, until they're caught out by the next mink farm. Or until the chickens are sick, or I'm sick from eating the eggs. I think if I get scraps, and scratch mix, or better just actual wheat and actual corn and actual sunflower seeds, I can know what I give them if I give it to them. Half the time they do not eat particular items in the mixes and it's because it's not fit for eating. For them or for me. I had some old two minute noodles, like really old, the plastic wrappings stunk and it permeated the noodles and the chooks wouldn't eat them. smart chooks.

 

[Folly's place]

I'm delighted to be able to buy good balanced feed in a bag at the feed store!!!
Mary

 

[Acre4Me]

I'm not trying to shout, I'm just tagging my message for easier scanning for key words. It does look like shouting though doesn't it ? though that's not the intention as you can see.

Well the day you can pick out one single food and just eat that and nothing else is the day I might agree, even if it was a variety of foods combined say into a burger meal that the seller also claims is formulated to be balanced and blah blah blah, that is still going to make you sick and BORED !! (that time I was shouting).

Feed is formulated to use up whatever the mill that makes it can find.In the case of pet food, it can contain euthanased pets and dead chickens. This is called 'rendered meat'.

Actually just do a search for pet food scandal

it's too easy and it's FDA approved.

If you don't pick up roadkill, you can be fairly sure that your chicken pellets will contain roadkill as well as dead cows, animals with tumors, anything that is defined as a food animal by the FDA which defines a food animal as "any meat source within an animal that is not fit for human consumption" goes into it. It's not actually a secret how industrial pellets are made and what goes into them, it's defined and while its not in the glossy advertising it's not a secret, it's just business. I feed my chooks maggots, so it's not like your average chicken owner would really care.

There is no benevolent arm of government which makes sure that layer pellets are different to free range pellets any more than they have to make sure window cleaner, floor cleaner, and benchtop cleaner aren't just the same thing in three different bottles at three times the price of vinegar.

If there was such a department, they'd have a name and they'd not keep their existence secret from the internet, it's a department that a person could actually name, thing is, it doesn't exist.

Food scraps are fine for chooks and with enough scraps to sort through, chickens have helped their owners with delicious eggs for thousands of years.

You are quite right about this :
" However, many people do feed their chickens scraps and do not have a problem, others have reduced egg laying or laying that stops altogether bc the scraps are not providing the needed nutrients."
there is a thread on the board right now where someone's hen is cracking and eating eggs because of eating pellets alone without shell-grit. There is no end to the faulty products on the shelves and in the market and pellets are just the same.

Pellets can be every bit as bad as food scraps by not having enough calcium for example, and having more dead cancerous cow and surgical waste from the vet's than comes out of our kitchens. I'd rather eat eggs from food scraps from my and my friends and the local food shop's kitchens because at least I know it doesn't contain the chemicals that are used to euthanase animals which the FDA speculated got into the pet food because it was in the dead pets added to the mix recently. Or melamine ! oh god there is no end to the scandals.

well, you might want to stop reading just anything and everything on the internet...it’s not all truth. In addition, when you click on and read something, then you get more things that pop up on the side for other websites for similar things ...making it seem like a “thing” that is a big deal, when it really isn’t. So, you may be overloading your eyeballs with supposed scandals everywhere, when it really isn’t the case.

if you haven’t read a chicken pellet label, they don’t contain rendered meat as a rule. I’m curious as to where you think the spent laying hens should go. Should they live out their lives to old age...but where and at what cost? If so, then the cost of a dozen eggs just skyrockets bc of the added cost of keeping non productive hens. Should they be tossed in a landfill and no animal benefits from the protein and nutrition they contains??

Also, be aware that you are personifying your chickens. You are putting human emotions/preferences onto a chicken, which doesn’t care about “boring” and repetitive foods quite the same way humans do.

Scraps, sure chickens have been getting scraps for eons and they may very well lay eggs. But without proper nutrition, they may lay less, lay smaller eggs, lay poorly formed eggs, or not lay at all. Without proper nutrition, they will also take longer to recover from a molt.

Enjoy your scandals and your chickens. You can feed your chickens however you want!

 

[GodofPecking]

When you say I shouldn't read everything on the internet, does that mean you want me not to read what you are writing when you say that ? so if I do and take your advice by not taking your advice then I won't take your advice in accordance with your advice. ( Nod ) my eyeballs aren't the only thing that hurts now.

Nonsense ! of course they contain rendered meat ! you just make the case that dead spent chickens shouldn't go to waste. Pellets contain every chicken disease that the old chickens have had along the way along with all the meds they've ever had. They should go to landfill, rather than my tummy. I like my roadkill fresh, not bagged. If I accidentally hit something on the road, then there is that animal, and the car, where on earth botulism is supposed to magically appear from out of thin air I don't know. It's the kind of thing a chicken dies from and that dead botulism ridden carcass is looked on with compassion and not exiled to the landfill but is given a new home in a domestic chicken coop as food for little chicks so that it's botulism that it died from can live on. Nothing goes to waste in a market society, botulism makes a great story when it gets recycled into dead minks which could perhaps end up recycled into burgers ? no ! no way ! Surely recycling dead carcasses is just not a good idea because the chicken farmer has no time or money to take his dead chickens to the vet for a checkup before recycling the carcass, even when alive a vet visit is expensive for a chook, and the vet takes $140 and just tells you about your chicken " I think it was something she ate, do you feed her pellets by any chance " and then they look at you and you look at the vet and your embarrassed and don't say anything, but your embarrassment says more than words and they shake their head slowly "Tsk Tsk Tsk".

I agree I can feed my chickens scraps, I do, and I have to do without the botulism and added mercury and melamine and carcass flavoring with extra tumors. I feed them some pellets, but just pellets alone I think is like just bread and water for a prisoner. I notice that not only do my chickens lay eggs, but they lay eggs straight on through winter when other neighbors flocks have stopped laying on pellets alone. My chickens are a lot more fun and entertaining for visitors who come over and stay a while. They're more fun.

Sorry for the long message I think I haven't had a 17th cup of coffee today. Actually I don't drink coffee.

 

[Shadrach]

I'm not trying to shout, I'm just tagging my message for easier scanning for key words. It does look like shouting though doesn't it ? though that's not the intention as you can see.

Well the day you can pick out one single food and just eat that and nothing else is the day I might agree, even if it was a variety of foods combined say into a burger meal that the seller also claims is formulated to be balanced and blah blah blah, that is still going to make you sick and BORED !! (that time I was shouting).

Feed is formulated to use up whatever the mill that makes it can find.In the case of pet food, it can contain euthanased pets and dead chickens. This is called 'rendered meat'.

Actually just do a search for pet food scandal

it's too easy and it's FDA approved.

If you don't pick up roadkill, you can be fairly sure that your chicken pellets will contain roadkill as well as dead cows, animals with tumors, anything that is defined as a food animal by the FDA which defines a food animal as "any meat source within an animal that is not fit for human consumption" goes into it. It's not actually a secret how industrial pellets are made and what goes into them, it's defined and while its not in the glossy advertising it's not a secret, it's just business. I feed my chooks maggots, so it's not like your average chicken owner would really care.

There is no benevolent arm of government which makes sure that layer pellets are different to free range pellets any more than they have to make sure window cleaner, floor cleaner, and benchtop cleaner aren't just the same thing in three different bottles at three times the price of vinegar.

If there was such a department, they'd have a name and they'd not keep their existence secret from the internet, it's a department that a person could actually name, thing is, it doesn't exist.

Food scraps are fine for chooks and with enough scraps to sort through, chickens have helped their owners with delicious eggs for thousands of years.

You are quite right about this :
" However, many people do feed their chickens scraps and do not have a problem, others have reduced egg laying or laying that stops altogether bc the scraps are not providing the needed nutrients."
there is a thread on the board right now where someone's hen is cracking and eating eggs because of eating pellets alone without shell-grit. There is no end to the faulty products on the shelves and in the market and pellets are just the same.

Pellets can be every bit as bad as food scraps by not having enough calcium for example, and having more dead cancerous cow and surgical waste from the vet's than comes out of our kitchens. I'd rather eat eggs from food scraps from my and my friends and the local food shop's kitchens because at least I know it doesn't contain the chemicals that are used to euthanase animals which the FDA speculated got into the pet food because it was in the dead pets added to the mix recently. Or melamine ! oh god there is no end to the scandals.

It's an interesting viewpoint and one i have some sympathy with.
I and others are of the opinion that commercially produced feed while supplying the basics to support life may not provide chickens with the balanced and varied diet that they would otherwise get free ranging, given the forage is varied and of good quality.
I'm sure there are many horror stories associated with the production of commercial feed.
I feed the chickens here commercial feed but it is in addition to what they forage and when forage is good, their commercial feed consumption is low.
There are exceptional circumstances when the chickens here hardly eat any commercial feed, times of heavy moult, minor illnesses and particular times of year when certain insects and bugs are plentiful.
The commercial feed manufactures supply feeds that contain the essential amino acids to make a complete protein. There are many amino acids that when combined with the correct digestive enzymes will make a complete protein. My view is it is probably better for a chickens health to consume things that will supply alternative amino acids along with other vitamins and minerals.

 

[GodofPecking]

maybe chickens are just botulism pellets way of reproducing themselves. Same way that adults are just children's way to reproduce themselves and how the chicken is also just the eggs way of reproducing itself.

 

[Acre4Me]

When you say I shouldn't read everything on the internet, does that mean you want me not to read what you are writing when you say that ? so if I do and take your advice by not taking your advice then I won't take your advice in accordance with your advice. ( Nod ) my eyeballs aren't the only thing that hurts now.

Nonsense ! of course they contain rendered meat ! you just make the case that dead spent chickens shouldn't go to waste. Pellets contain every chicken disease that the old chickens have had along the way along with all the meds they've ever had. They should go to landfill, rather than my tummy. I like my roadkill fresh, not bagged. If I accidentally hit something on the road, then there is that animal, and the car, where on earth botulism is supposed to magically appear from out of thin air I don't know. It's the kind of thing a chicken dies from and that dead botulism ridden carcass is looked on with compassion and not exiled to the landfill but is given a new home in a domestic chicken coop as food for little chicks so that it's botulism that it died from can live on. Nothing goes to waste in a market society, botulism makes a great story when it gets recycled into dead minks which could perhaps end up recycled into burgers ? no ! no way ! Surely recycling dead carcasses is just not a good idea because the chicken farmer has no time or money to take his dead chickens to the vet for a checkup before recycling the carcass, even when alive a vet visit is expensive for a chook, and the vet takes $140 and just tells you about your chicken " I think it was something she ate, do you feed her pellets by any chance " and then they look at you and you look at the vet and your embarrassed and don't say anything, but your embarrassment says more than words and they shake their head slowly "Tsk Tsk Tsk".

I agree I can feed my chickens scraps, I do, and I have to do without the botulism and added mercury and melamine and carcass flavoring with extra tumors. I feed them some pellets, but just pellets alone I think is like just bread and water for a prisoner. I notice that not only do my chickens lay eggs, but they lay eggs straight on through winter when other neighbors flocks have stopped laying on pellets alone. My chickens are a lot more fun and entertaining for visitors who come over and stay a while. They're more fun.

Sorry for the long message I think I haven't had a 17th cup of coffee today. Actually I don't drink coffee.

oh geez.. you really do like to perceive yourself as “logical”, but, you are rather scattered. As I said before, enjoy your scandals and your chickens.

 

[tjb]

oh, my! Thanks for all the input... I have thought about adding a few lights to add a couple of hours in the morning since I generally get up by 4. I may try that. It just kills me to buy eggs from the store when I have a coop just eating away $$ in feed.

 

[Mimi13]

It just kills me to buy eggs from the store when I have a coop just eating away $$ in feed.

IMHO lower egg production through the winter is part of keeping chickens. You could always buy new chicks every spring that would provide eggs for you all winter and cull the others in the fall and put them in your freezer. Going about it that way would be a win-win, right?

 

[Mimi13]

If I accidentally hit something on the road, then there is that animal, and the car, where on earth botulism is supposed to magically appear from out of thin air I don't know

Respectfully speaking, your posts are extremely hard to follow. It may be partly because I don’t subscribe to your line of reasoning. However, we can all agree to disagree and still be friends, which is a bonus.

Lastly, I find the bolded part above very funny. It leaves me with an image in my mind of you driving down the road looking for unsuspecting varmints maybe a little too close to the road and “ba-bump, screech.” Oh, I got me some more food for my birds!

Side note: I do like to find humor in most anything. No ill will intended.