Fermented Feed for Quail

[Sill]

Hi, I'm a first time poster although I've lurked in the forum for years now.

I've been feeding FF to my chickens for about a month now and just starting to try with my coturnix. Their feed has a meat based protein source - is anyone fermenting a feed with meat meal, and have you noticed any difference between that and fermenting a 100% plant based feed? So far, 4 days in, the feed seems to be fermenting well, bubbling, etc., but it smells (and looks) quite a bit like dog poop.

Gave some to the birds for the first time this morning and they seemed interested but not entirely sure it was food.

Try fermenting it less. Depending on which local source I get my feed from it may have fish meal in it. I only ferment 24 hours because of this, and it does not develop a bad smell, just a regular fermenty one.

I am trying fermenting my quail feed. I have 6 quail and I've sped through two 10 lb bags of feed in the last....month and a half? And I'm dumping a good portion of that out of their tray underneath the cage. This is going to get expensive!!!
I hope I can figure out the fermented feed thing. I tried feeding them some fermented feed this morning and they have eaten it all up. So I think I need to give them more. Not sure how to measure for only 6 birds!

So how's it going? Getting it figured out? The hard part is learning just how much to make daily. You want them to always have just enough so there is a little left at the end of the day, but not so much there is wastage, and not zero or they may be hungry and egg production may wane. Depending on time of year I make about 6-8 cups dry feed to 6-8 cups water for 35-40 coturnix. Plus some veggies.

 

[Dannies]

I definitely figured out what smell I'm looking for.

I haven't figured out amounts yet, though. I'm also working on FF for my four silkies. I think I have a workable system in place,and I've been listening to some podcasts which seem helpful. The Online Chicken School and the urban chicken podcast.
Still waiting on my quail to start laying.

 

[Dannies]

Has anyone had any quail get sick when starting FF? I'm not sure if i am being paranoid, or if my quail are not liking it. Do they ever get runnier poops before they start to lay? My quail are 8 weeks old. I have fed them FF a few times this week. Today I fed them more, and they seem like they are acting weird. And their poops seem squirty. Gross. these are my first quail, so I am not an expert!

 

[Sill]

It can make their poop more watery, or not. FF is not dry feed. Just by being wet it can make for more watery droppings. However I've found it does not on my quail. They just don't need to drink as much as when eating dry so water consumption goes down. I've found FF does make their poop less stinky. You might want to give the FF on a more regular basis so their digestive systems can get used to the change in feed. And you don't have to feed it exclusively, you can give some in the morning or evening and have dry feed the rest of the time. I personally don't like dry feed. They waste it and it makes them stink.

 

[paneubert]

Here is something to think about.....how do you think a medicated supplement/wormer such as Rooster Booster would impact fermented feed? Rooster Booster has an antibiotic in it that acts as a wormer. I assume that antibiotic (Hygromycin B) might kill the beneficial bacteria or prevent it from even fermenting? I am thinking that if I ever try to add Rooster Booster in to my worming rotation, I might have to add it as a top dressing/powder after the feed has already fermented.

Thoughts?

 

[paneubert]

The hard part is learning just how much to make daily. Depending on time of year I make about 6-8 cups dry feed to 6-8 cups water for 35-40 coturnix. Plus some veggies.

@Sill Do you still average 12-16 cups per day (when adding dry and wet) for 40 birds? A little less than half a cup prepared per bird per day? I am struggling to find the balance where they still have anything left when I get home from work. I put out what I consider to be a large flip top feeder (20 x 4.5 x 3 inches) full of FF before work at about 6 AM, and when I come home from work at 6 PM it is almost always picked clean.

If you average a half cup FF per quail per day, I am probably underfeeding mine! Hahaha. I do usually add another full feeder after work, and it is usually empty in the morning.

 

[Sill]

@Sill Do you still average 12-16 cups per day (when adding dry and wet) for 40 birds? A little less than half a cup prepared per bird per day? I am struggling to find the balance where they still have anything left when I get home from work. I put out what I consider to be a large flip top feeder (20 x 4.5 x 3 inches) full of FF before work at about 6 AM, and when I come home from work at 6 PM it is almost always picked clean.

If you average a half cup FF per quail per day, I am probably underfeeding mine! Hahaha. I do usually add another full feeder after work, and it is usually empty in the morning.

I'm averaging a little less than a half cup per quail since I have some older birds that aren't producing as well so their feed consumption is down. When you have young birds that are actively laying they eat more to produce those delicious eggs. It takes a lot of energy to make eggs, so when they aren't laying as much they eat less. Yeah I need to hatch out some replacements and cull the older birds but I've been busy.

 

[paneubert]

I'm averaging a little less than a half cup per quail since I have some older birds that aren't producing as well so their feed consumption is down. When you have young birds that are actively laying they eat more to produce those delicious eggs. It takes a lot of energy to make eggs, so when they aren't laying as much they eat less. Yeah I need to hatch out some replacements and cull the older birds but I've been busy.

Okie dokie. I measured this morning and my feeder holds a little over 4 cups. Giving them 2 feeders per day seems about right. I might have to fabricate something larger so I can cut it down to one feeding per day. They do seem to fluctuate though. The feeder that was out from 6 PM to 6 AM this past night was only about half empty this morning. Hahaha. I either find a picked clean feeder, or one that is half full!

 

[paneubert]

For those who find this thread, I want to provide another data point on feed consumption per bird. I was averaging a little over a half cup of fermented feed per bird per day for the first 2 weeks that I had my birds. This was with 24/7 access to FF. Now that they have settled in to my aviary, I am down to a lot less consumption per day. I put a feeder out at 6 AM that holds about 5 cups of FF and I am finding that there is sometimes a little left over the next morning/24 hours later. This comes out to around 1/4 cup per bird per day. The weather has been hotter, so it could be that they are not consuming as much to keep warm. It could also be that they were underfed before I got them, and they spent the first 2 weeks fattening up. Or they were still in their final weeks of maturing and needed extra energy. Who knows. This was all before they started laying as well.

I also want to advocate for a method of FF that I saw mentioned in one of the giant mega FF threads. When I started, I was keeping the feed really wet, sometimes even with standing water covering it. This meant I had to drain my feed each time. This takes time and was messy. I saw someone post that they treat their FF more like a wet loaf of bread, where the feed is dry enough that there are small cracks on the surface. There is a really wet layer down low, but the feed on top of the bucket is already what I would call "drained". It all has to do with the amount of water you put in when you add fresh feed. I keep my feed at a wetness where I can take a measuring cup and just scoop off the top layer without any real liquid going into my scooper. It reminds me of scooping ice cream. I just keep my scooping horizontal so I am getting mostly the "drier" layer, like you would if you were trying to make a nice round scoop of ice cream. Almost like flaking off a layer of product. This works well for me and I have no draining at all. I then mix up the remaining dry layer with the really wet below it, and refresh with some new dry crumbles and a little fresh water to replace what I took out. It is really soupy and wet since the new feed has not yet expanded or absorbed any of the water. But within an hour, it is puffed back up and ready for the next feeding.

This has reduced the time it takes me to feed by at least half. I am also slightly suspicious that this method contributed to why my birds are eating less feed overall. It seems like when I started this drier method is the same time they reduced how much they ate. I am sure that I am giving them more feed and less water, even if it is only a small difference in overall volume of water to feed from when I was making my feed super wet.

 

[Sill]

Here is something to think about.....how do you think a medicated supplement/wormer such as Rooster Booster would impact fermented feed? Rooster Booster has an antibiotic in it that acts as a wormer. I assume that antibiotic (Hygromycin B) might kill the beneficial bacteria or prevent it from even fermenting? I am thinking that if I ever try to add Rooster Booster in to my worming rotation, I might have to add it as a top dressing/powder after the feed has already fermented.

Thoughts?

Most antibiotics only work on either gram negative or gram positive bacteria, not both. And antibiotics don't work on yeasts or fungi. So the RB would only work on maybe less than half the present organisms. Still I would not include it while doing the actual fermentation. Top dressing would be the way to go.

For those who find this thread, I want to provide another data point on feed consumption per bird. I was averaging a little over a half cup of fermented feed per bird per day for the first 2 weeks that I had my birds. This was with 24/7 access to FF. Now that they have settled in to my aviary, I am down to a lot less consumption per day. I put a feeder out at 6 AM that holds about 5 cups of FF and I am finding that there is sometimes a little left over the next morning/24 hours later. This comes out to around 1/4 cup per bird per day. The weather has been hotter, so it could be that they are not consuming as much to keep warm. It could also be that they were underfed before I got them, and they spent the first 2 weeks fattening up. Or they were still in their final weeks of maturing and needed extra energy. Who knows. This was all before they started laying as well.

I also want to advocate for a method of FF that I saw mentioned in one of the giant mega FF threads. When I started, I was keeping the feed really wet, sometimes even with standing water covering it. This meant I had to drain my feed each time. This takes time and was messy. I saw someone post that they treat their FF more like a wet loaf of bread, where the feed is dry enough that there are small cracks on the surface. There is a really wet layer down low, but the feed on top of the bucket is already what I would call "drained". It all has to do with the amount of water you put in when you add fresh feed. I keep my feed at a wetness where I can take a measuring cup and just scoop off the top layer without any real liquid going into my scooper. It reminds me of scooping ice cream. I just keep my scooping horizontal so I am getting mostly the "drier" layer, like you would if you were trying to make a nice round scoop of ice cream. Almost like flaking off a layer of product. This works well for me and I have no draining at all. I then mix up the remaining dry layer with the really wet below it, and refresh with some new dry crumbles and a little fresh water to replace what I took out. It is really soupy and wet since the new feed has not yet expanded or absorbed any of the water. But within an hour, it is puffed back up and ready for the next feeding.

This has reduced the time it takes me to feed by at least half. I am also slightly suspicious that this method contributed to why my birds are eating less feed overall. It seems like when I started this drier method is the same time they reduced how much they ate. I am sure that I am giving them more feed and less water, even if it is only a small difference in overall volume of water to feed from when I was making my feed super wet.

I make mine on the dryer side too. It's just quicker that way. I'm usually in a hurry!