fixing ammonia smell with deep litter method

[Beekissed]

We started with deep litter method at the start of November. We're not doing it right, because we're starting to smell ammonia.

What we've done:
-- 10" of straw in coop with linoleum floor
-- turning weekly with rake and sprinkling Sweet PDZ
-- adding fresh straw every week or two

The coop is well-ventilated — we keep the screened door and four windows exposed all the time.

I moved a bunch of the soiled straw out to the run, which is partially covered and gets stirred up more by the hens, in hopes that it will air out and get broken down faster more quickly. The smell in the coop is almost gone for now.

Do I need to completely clean the coop and start over? Are pine shavings really a must? Straw seemed a more cost-effective option for our spacious coop (4'x8' for 5 birds), and I thought it would be quicker to convert to usable compost.

I've been reluctant to throw scratch into the coop to get them to churn it up more ... mixing food and poop strikes me as a poor idea.

Thanks for tips. We tried a poop hammock and daily scooping, and DLM seems so much easier!

Straw does not absorb, nor does it bind with the nitrogen in the feces and it takes forever to decompose. It's good bedding for horses maybe. I've found that a mixed type of bedding seems to work the best and it needs to be layered in like poop lasagna. Since you are not working with a soil floor yours is going to take longer to decompose and be broken down by bugs, worms, etc.

Here's a good start, if you have any loamy soil or composted material handy, put that down first...anything that already has a good soil culture...about 2 in. Then use leaves, sawdust, woody weed trimmings, etc. to put down your first layer of bedding at about 4 in. deep. Don't stir it nor encourage the girls to stir it...just lightly turn the worst poop over until a little bedding covers it....areas under the roost in particular. When it gets pretty saturated with poop, put another light layer of bedding down and just enough to cover the surface a good 2-3 in.

Don't use DE or PDZ or any such thing. If you need some moisture control you can use a little sweet lime but don't over do it. If it's too dry, you can moisten it a little..but it sounds like you live where there is a lot of humidity anyway so you might not need any extra. Open up some ventilation at the floor level about 12 in. from the floor of the coop...you need an updraft of fresh air intake to move any ammonia upwards from the floor.

Keep building that manure pack and try not to disturb the bottom layers, just lightly turn poop into the top layers. Go low and slow on adding new bedding, just light layers.

Ventilation and materials used, how you use them and how you maintain is the key to success. Each coop will need it's own tweaking on ventilation but just remember the goal is to encourage the litter to decompose in place and attract bugs that help with all that.

 

[gjensen]

Bee has offered very good advice.

I manage mine like a compost pile. Too wet and it is a problem and too dry it is a problem.

As I feel like it might be getting away from me like in wet summer spells etc., I add a fresh layer and stir it in good. Then I add another fresh layer on top. That usually gets me back ahead.

Stocking density has a lot to do with bedding quality. Too little birds for the space means dry and dusty bedding. Too many means perpetually wet bedding.

I stir and level out the bedding frequently. Kind of like turning a pile.

I think any material that is not absorbent is useless for deep bedding. Straw is fine if it is removed and replaced frequently. Not for deep bedding. You need high carbon, and absorbent.

I feel like the deep bedding method works better if not on a non porous surface.

Ground limestone can be useful if used correctly. If not, it can cause extra release of ammonia and be harmful for the birds. Don't add it to bedding that has gotten too wet. It is better for maintenance, and not a fix. Never use hydrated lime.

Something else that helps if the bedding is getting away from you is peat moss. Stir it in. This is better for bedding that is partially decomposed.

I love deep bedding, but here in the humid southeast, I have to keep up with it in the summer during rainy spells.

If it smells bad, it is bad.

 

[Motts]

I also live in the bay area, though this is a big area and not sure exactly where you are. My coop is raised off the ground. Inside I am using pine shavings that I get from Concord feed. They have locations in Concord and in Dublin, Ca. I have had my chickens in the coop about 5 months and have only cleaned it out two or three times. The shavings keep everything very dry and seem very low dust. Since this is not in contact with the ground I feel a little weird about doing deep litter method. On the other hand my outdoor covered run is deep litter (at least as much as the girls will let it be

). For the run I use pine flake from Tractor Supply. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/sto...ium-pine-shavings-covers-8-cu-ft?cm_vc=-10005. These are bigger then a stall shaving but not a true wood chip. I have not had to change this run out once and there is no smell. I just keep adding in more. I have also added in leaves from our giant magnolia tree and some grass clippings. Now the tractor supply is a little more of a drive but I buy a bought a 4 bags 5 months ago and just put the last one in last week.

Good luck!

 

[blissed]

Thank you, everyone, for the very helpful advice! I'm grateful for the solid tips and clear instructions: Poking around online just turned me around in circles.

I'm going to pitch most of the straw and try the leftover wood shavings I have on hand on top of finished compost. I'll save the straw bales for the garden. I'll check the closest feed store for the cheaper pine flake. I'm in Sunnyvale, and Gilroy is a bit of a drive but not too far to stock up on supplies.

Much thanks!

 

[Blooie]

Oh, Bee-eee, my fine feathered friend, I have a DLM question. I was going to ask on the Porch but then I thought since so many people are interested in DLM it might be better to ask here and get an answer that could help more folks than just little old me.

I started our new coop using DLM, and on your wise advice also have the run going in DL. But the coop is so dusty! I mean, like a layer on everything, including the vent screens. I know that moisture and deep litter can result in a release of ammonia, even with good ventilation. But is it supposed to be so dusty in there? Do I want to use the mister on the garden wand and just give the litter a light spray, then add more shavings? I want to make the lasagna so I try to avoid stirring the litter deeply, just kinda raking over the surface about once week. Even the 2x4 cross framing pieces are coated with dust, and the windows and screens are too.

Conversely the litter in the run is saturated. We've had continual rain for 2 days and even the covering over the run isn't preventing everything from getting soaked. Too much water in the run, not enough in the coop. Sheesh! Maybe I should just lock the chickens in the garage since there's no room for a car in there anyway!

Am I doing something wrong t cause so much dust, or does a lot of dust mean that I'm doing a proper job of keeping things well layered and dry? I've had no odor problems (okay, that's a lie - I actually had a little bit in there but another layer of shavings took care of that immediately so I don't count it) but the dust is as bad as it was when the girls (and Charlie) were in the house! I'm not using anything else but the leaves, other green material, and shavings.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
When you empty out your waterers for cleaning and refreshing, just slop them into the DL in your coop. The dust and dryness will not help it compost...gotta have some moisture there for that. It takes time to have good deep litter...it's a slow build and with time and not disturbing the lower layers too often, the moisture can be trapped at the lower layers where it can aid in composting, in attracting the organisms to compost , etc. Patience, Grasshopper....deep litter is a process and it takes a little tweaking to get your coop's environment just right for it, but when that day happens you'll stand back and take a deep whiff...and know you've arrived! Low and slow in building the DL in a coop with a wooden floor, small layers and no stirring...just a light turn over or tossing of dry materials on top of the poop. Just takes time....

 

[Blooie]

Quote: Okay, I feel better now. My coop has a dirt floor, no wood, so that should help speed things up a little bit as the layers build and time passes. I knew it would take a long time for good decomposition to take place, but I was just wondering if I was doing something wrong because it's so dry and dusty. Empty waterers - check! Thank you, my special friend!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I started my coop with DL ... my coop is right on the ground, but I thought that would be too damp so put down a layer of sand, and then I put some weed barrier fabric down. Stooooooooooopid!

For one thing, the fabric is expensive. So ... that's just dumb from the start. But also the crew installing the weed barrier didn't follow instructions ... they stretched it so tight it was actually pulling my coop apart and ... ugh ... I was fighting that stuff all the time ... But also the birds would scratch down to it, then I'd have strings of the stuff to deal with, and ... ugh, so many other details I'll spare you. But for another, the barrier layers of sand and weed fabric didn't let the bugs come up into the litter the way they're supposed to, and I didn't know enough to add a layer of lively organic matter before I put in the bedding.

So I eventually ripped out the cloth. Very satisfying.

I think DL is best when it is right on the soil, but BK suggested some great work arounds if that's not possible.

I toss scratch under the roosts in the morning so the flock can "make their beds." Because my coop is on a hillside, I do occasionally have to rake the bedding up the hill, but that's still way easier than cleaning the coop all the time. The flock LOVES dust bathing in the DL.

 

[Duke6017]

Beekissed,

My coop is raised and has a wood floor. Just to confirm, you recommend not stirring the pine shavings. Since I read your comment a few weeks back I have not been stirring, just adding a fresh layer of shavings every few days, creating the "poop lasagna" you mentioned. This seems to be working well, but I just want to make sure I am approaching it the right way.

 

[pmcatnip]

I'm considering DLM and wondering, does deep litter cause wood floors to rot out? I just built my new coop with 3/4 plywood for the floor. I don't expect it to ever have problems if cleaned out regularly. Reading about DLM it sounds pretty convenient but with litter essentially sitting there composting with bugs and things that sounds like it could start to eat away at the floor.