getting to a delaware

[TimG]

Sports or Sport is not a genetic term

From online Free Dictionary (medical):

mutation /mu·ta·tion/ (mu-ta´shun) a permanent transmissible change in the genetic material. Also, an individual exhibiting such change; a sport.

From Merriam Webster:

sport an individual exhibiting a sudden deviation from type beyond the normal limits of individual variation usually as a result of mutation especially of somatic tissue

From Wikipedia's entry mutant:

Previously, people used the word sport to refer abnormal specimens.

So, maybe it is not a term geneticists use, but the meaning of my use was clear. The question remains: weren't Delawares originally the result of mutations rather than a reliably repeatable process?

 

[catdaddyfro]

Utterly wrong ? LOL no I know how she got to the F3s Marvin! every last detail my friend. So no I'm not utterly wrong. If I'm not getting the point across then never mind. I'm not throwing a bunch of numbers around simply because I'm not that "geeky" myself. I just go by results and I have seen them. Its whats called hands on experiences not "calculated guesses"

I'm thru LOL

Jeff

 

[nicalandia]

From online Free Dictionary (medical):

mutation /mu·ta·tion/ (mu-ta´shun) a permanent transmissible change in the genetic material. Also, an individual exhibiting such change; a sport.

From Merriam Webster:

sport an individual exhibiting a sudden deviation from type beyond the normal limits of individual variation usually as a result of mutation especially of somatic tissue

From Wikipedia's entry mutant:

Previously, people used the word sport to refer abnormal specimens.

So, maybe it is not a term geneticists use, but the meaning of my use was clear. The question remains: weren't Delawares originally the result of mutations rather than a reliably repeatable process?

we use the term Heterozygotes, and no, no special mutations occured, all the genes need it for the Delaware pattern are there(on both breeds, BR and NH) to create the Delaware,

"calculated guesses"


Jeff

Calculated Guesses? this is Science we are talking about here: Genetics, statistics, law of large numbers and so on, if a point or suggestion/fact need to be made, numbers(genetics calculations) need to be presented to make a case, but so far you have only contribuited only statements without the required facts..

here is a sample(first erroneous statement without proof)

If you breed the F1 black barred male to the Red hens you will get Red barred progeny.

Jeff

the issue I have with this statement is that anybody can come here and read it and believe its true, the second issue I have is it lacks proper genetic methodology

so I went a head and said it was wrong and stated my case..

Incorrect..

100% the F1 males will be S/s+(golden, they get the S from the BR male) when crossed to the NH hens this will produce 50% silver hens and 50% gold hens(culls)/ 50% golden roosters(keepers) and 50 percent gold rooster..

and what did you do to refute my arguement? provide more statements again without scientific methodology

I don't have all the numbers(I could go search for them and post them but I'm not)

Jeff

you cant hope to win genetic arguements with this type of behavior, if you are not sure about a possible outcome just ask the question or allow a knowledgeable forum member to post before spreading misguided information, because if you do, not only will you be spreading inaccurate information but you will be subjected to my Harsh genetic scrutiny

 

[DuckBoy]

So NIC am I going with the same plan then?

BARRED ROO X NH HEN = F1

F1 X NH HEN = F2


THEN WHAT FROM THERE. THANKS AGAIN

 

[catdaddyfro]

Marvin here is a quote from your previous post:
just follow Tims advise, I doubt anybody would dare challenge him to a genetic debate(I myself have done it sometimes only to be humbled and learn from it)

Don't you realize the recipe that mrs. kathy followed came straight from he horses mouth here(tadkerson)
you complicate a situation too often ol boy, LOL

Jeff

 

[nicalandia]

So NIC am I going with the same plan then?

BARRED ROO X NH HEN = F1

F1 X NH HEN = F2


THEN WHAT FROM THERE. THANKS AGAIN

when you do to F1 to NH you will need to hatch at least 60 eggs to hatch a few good birds, on that cross, keep an eye for the Silver Barred Columbian hens, also keep a good eye for the Wheaten golden roosters and use the best looking one with the best silver wheaten Barred columbian hens..

how does the Golden(S/s+) wheaten(eWh/eWh) Columbian(Co/) Barred(B/b) roosters look

this is how they will look

source http://www.cacklehatchery.com/redsexlink.html

 

[nicalandia]

Marvin here is a quote from your previous post:
just follow Tims advise, I doubt anybody would dare challenge him to a genetic debate(I myself have done it sometimes only to be humbled and learn from it)

Don't you realize the recipe that mrs. kathy followed came straight from he horses mouth here(tadkerson)
you complicate a situation too often ol boy, LOL

Jeff

there seem to be a misunderstanding here, if she is Following Tims advise then she herself should have been doing F1 roo over NH hens just like he suggested

here is his quote and reference link https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/218243/getting-to-a-delaware#post_2587507


Quote:

Edit..

Both ways(F1xF1 or F1xNH) can lead you to Delaware like birds, but doing the F1xF1 you will need to hatch more than 150 eggs compared to about 60 if you do F1xNH hens...

but this has nothing to do with our arguement, you said F1 x Nh hens will give you gold/red birds, and that is not entirely correct, this cross will yield only 50 percent gold hens, but 50 percent silver hens and 50 percent gold rooster and 50 percent golden rooster..

golden roosters look very similar to Delaware roosters(see post above) use them and silver columbian barred hens and go from there

 

[nicalandia]

I believe Minor Columbian restrictors like Mahogany(found on NH) and Dilute(turns Mahogany infused red columbian into a Orange tone of the NH) were lost on the developing of the Delaware, or were by choice left out..

here is what I´m talking about

Quote:
see how that NH Roosters lack any hackle or saddle black markings? this is the results of columbian like restrictors(aside from Co/Columbian)

now a look at a Delaware patterned rooster
[FONT=arial, sans-serif][/FONT]



[FONT=arial, sans-serif]I think this minor columbian like restrictors where left out for two reasons[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]First..Mahogany even on pure Silver roosters(S/S) will show alot of red on the roosters and this is not good.. while Dilute(Di) on a homozygous Silver(S/S) rooster should make no difference between a di+/di+ S/S rooster..[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Second... by leaving these columbian restrictors out(Mh, Di and some undocumented ones) a true Silver Barred Columbian patterned bird was achievable, instead of a Barred Tailed white bird [/FONT]

 

[nicalandia]

Minor columbian Restrictors that my be found on NH(except for Db)

 

[nicalandia]

More info on NH..








variation on the amount of restriction