Good Dog Behavior? / Cat Help

[BrindleFinch]

Hello BYC~

I wasn't really sure where to put this thread, as it's not really about wild predators, but it is still about pests, in a way, so I thought it would be okay here.

What behavior do you guys look for in dogs that you allow around chickens? I have a dog right now who has chased chickens once in the past - and we have been working extensively with him since the one incident. He backed off of chasing as soon as he was yelled at, but it worried us and we've been working with him even if it was a "small," insignificant thing. Because these things can quickly spiral out of control.

He met the chickens off leash for the first time today. He was very passive, walking through them neutrally, but when they started squawking he still got those perked up ears and a tail wag. He was definitely interested, but he didn't go after or near them except to sniff.

So far we've only really been making him "git" when he's started pawing the fence, hopping, or barking. He's certainly learned the command well, and these behaviors have nearly stopped.

Still, I don't, and likely won't ever, trust him 100%. I'm asking if there are more subtle things I should be on the look out for in addition to the usual signs of excitement/becoming over-excited.

He's also displayed very protective behaviors over the chickens, including keeping the cat also in question in this post away from them even though he's scared of her. I think he'll make a great "chicken dog," I just need to know a bit more about what to praise/discourage.



I also wanted to ask about how y'all deal with cats. I have a cat who stalks the chickens. But... stops? I don't really know what to make of her. She watches them, pounces, but doesn't do anything else. It's like she thinks it's fun just to annoy them, but realizes she's too small to catch them or something. What would be a good solution? Or do you think she'll grow out of it when she becomes more accustomed to them?

 

[pennyJo1960]

Hello BYC~

I wasn't really sure where to put this thread, as it's not really about wild predators, but it is still about pests, in a way, so I thought it would be okay here.

What behavior do you guys look for in dogs that you allow around chickens? I have a dog right now who has chased chickens once in the past - and we have been working extensively with him since the one incident. He backed off of chasing as soon as he was yelled at, but it worried us and we've been working with him even if it was a "small," insignificant thing. Because these things can quickly spiral out of control.

He met the chickens off leash for the first time today. He was very passive, walking through them neutrally, but when they started squawking he still got those perked up ears and a tail wag. He was definitely interested, but he didn't go after or near them except to sniff.

So far we've only really been making him "git" when he's started pawing the fence, hopping, or barking. He's certainly learned the command well, and these behaviors have nearly stopped.

Still, I don't, and likely won't ever, trust him 100%. I'm asking if there are more subtle things I should be on the look out for in addition to the usual signs of excitement/becoming over-excited.

He's also displayed very protective behaviors over the chickens, including keeping the cat also in question in this post away from them even though he's scared of her. I think he'll make a great "chicken dog," I just need to know a bit more about what to praise/discourage.



I also wanted to ask about how y'all deal with cats. I have a cat who stalks the chickens. But... stops? I don't really know what to make of her. She watches them, pounces, but doesn't do anything else. It's like she thinks it's fun just to annoy them, but realizes she's too small to catch them or something. What would be a good solution? Or do you think she'll grow out of it when she becomes more accustomed to them?

Pretty valid questions the dog keep doings as you are it is best to not keep a dog in the chicken yard but close to it..
second we have 3 outside cats born feral but have developed trust in us 3 they will kill peeps and have now I have made them fort Knox, large birds peck them so they do learn pretty quick

 

[staceyj]

Can’t say about cats but dog psychology tells the truth.

Dogs are predators.
Chickens are prey.

Certain breeds and some rare dogs are bred specifically to guard livestock or just show an inordinate amount of neutrality in their personality.

That being said it takes a ton of obedience training to make a dog resist natural instincts.

I have a dog who is very neutral about other animals, chickens included. He can lie amongst them and they can walk over him, peck dirt out of his fur, even snuggle next to him.
But would I ever leave him alone with them while they free ranged?
Nope. Never.
I would have no one to blame but myself.

 

[JaeG]

I don't think our Lab/Pointer mutt would ever dare touch one of our chickens (I can have her in the same room as our hand reared finches when they are out of their cage and she knows she's not to even look at them) but I still wouldn't ever leave her unattended with any bird. It's just not worth the risk. You could train your dog to sit or lie in a particular place when the chickens are out so that he has a specific job when they are around rather than letting him mingle with them. Even livestock guardian dogs will attack livestock if they don't have enough to do so again, I'd never trust a dog, no matter how sweet and docile, to have access to my birds without supervision.

Cats can be very playful and it sounds like your cat is just playing and practising her hunting skills. I doubt she'd ever attack them outright as they are too big for a cat to bring down - small rodents are more their style and a wild rabbit is probably the biggest prey they would choose to bring down. I think it would only be big, feral cats that would ever be ballsy enough to have a go at a full grown chicken, and they'd have to be pretty hungry to chance it - chickens can be pretty vicious themselves.

 

[BrindleFinch]

Can’t say about cats but dog psychology tells the truth.

Dogs are predators.
Chickens are prey.

Certain breeds and some rare dogs are bred specifically to guard livestock or just show an inordinate amount of neutrality in their personality.

That being said it takes a ton of obedience training to make a dog resist natural instincts.

I have a dog who is very neutral about other animals, chickens included. He can lie amongst them and they can walk over him, peck dirt out of his fur, even snuggle next to him.
But would I ever leave him alone with them while they free ranged?
Nope. Never.
I would have no one to blame but myself.

Oh gosh, no. I wasn't asking about how to teach him to be alone with the chickens - like you said, that would be an unsafe situation. They'll always be monitored.

I was just asking if there are any other behaviors I should be looking out for when he IS with the chickens. While he'll never be alone with them, it would be cruel of me to expect him to spend his sunny afternoons inside or vice versa with the chickens. Everyone's gotta learn to be tolerant... at least while the human is watching

The giving him a place to be is a great idea, JaeG! Thank you - we just might try that!

 

[Lifeiseasy]

I agree that the dog shouldn’t be left unsupervised with the chickens at all. I have a year old Siberian Husky who has gone through extensive off leash training and will still, albeit rarely, chase after my birds. He hasn’t done more damage than tearing off a few tail feathers but that’s because I’m always around.

I think you’re doing a great job and that you should keep with what you’re doing. There really aren’t any more signs other than getting really excited/interested. Just know that you will always have to be on the lookout when your dog is around your birds. As for the cat, my three are inside and don’t have any access to birds whatsoever so unfortunately I cannot help you there. Just keep an eye on it.

 

[JaeG]

The giving him a place to be is a great idea, JaeG! Thank you - we just might try that!

I saw that trick on a TV programme where a blue heeler was utterly obsessed with the lawnmower and continually tried to attack it when her owner used it (which isn't very safe for anyone concerned). So they taught their dog to sit in a particular spot and that was her 'job' when the lawnmower was on. It took awhile to retrain her (starting with short sessions with the mower off) but with lots of food rewards and repetition she soon caught on and could actually relax while the lawns were being done.

It's probably a good idea to concentrate on the command "Leave it" too just in case you ever needed to use it. We would put a treat down near our dog and say "Leave it" and reward her for not moving towards it by giving her another yummy treat. We'd then move the 'treat that must not be touched' a little closer and repeated the command, rewarding her for not moving towards it. The aim is that he never gets the treat on the ground - that one goes back in the bag, but he does get food rewards for doing as he's told. Once he's a pro at that game you can move onto more tempting things (like your empty dinner plate left on the floor).

 

[April’s Zoo]

Still, I don't, and likely won't ever, trust him 100%.
...........
I think he'll make a great "chicken dog," I just need to know a bit more about what to praise/discourage.

A couple thoughts....
A “chicken dog” or Livestock Guard Dog (LGD) needs to be one that you trust fully, no reservations. That’s the point. They are there to be on guard 24/7, and you trust that if you hear barking or commotion, that it’s because they’re doing their job, and not that it’s them causing the ruckus. If you don’t think you’ll ever trust this dog that much, then they won’t ever be your LGD.

If what you are after is just a dog you can have out with you sometimes who won’t harass the chickens, then you just need to do what you’re doing... you probably aren’t gonna see most of the super subtle clues.... but if you are quick to correct behavior you do see before it escalates to barking, chasing, growling, etc. then you should be good. Have you ever watched “The Dog Whisperer” Caesar Milan? He has a lot of insight into seeing the early clues of overexcitement and bad energy.... things like watching their tail wagging rhythm, or paying attention to if their fur starts to stand up anywhere, even breathing rate changes.

A last thought is that your dog may be picking up on your feelings of ambivalence in trusting him. Going back to Caesar Milan— you are the pack leader in your household.... a pack leader isn’t undecided on trusting a member of the pack. That’s why a nervous or submissive animal is never the pack leader. If indeed your dog is picking up on your feelings of uncertainty about their behavior, they won’t follow you as their leader.

Good luck

 

[ChirpyChicks1]

I have no advice on dogs considering my two outside are not chicken friendly. They were adopted fully grown and I’ve been lazy about teaching them good chicken behavior. They’ll paw at the fence when the birds are out and yip at them as well.

We had a stray cat show up to make his home at our house. In the beginning he would stock my chickens but eventually stopped finding them interesting. He frequently visited the coop and even laid in the nesting boxes at times.