Goose Organization?

[goosedragon]

Quote:
Be Kind to the Master Breeders they have done more to preserve the old goose breeds than the backyard group who seen to be more interested in current fads. That isn't a bad thing but you can't produce most of the new fancys without the base stock to start from. Take the new colors of Sebs and American geese. Some may have been found by accident but it took a true Master Breeder to work out the genetics and standardise the color line. Myself I can hardly wait for the mini geese to become more available, they may allow a lot more people to have geese, thouse that really don't have enough land for standards and those who are really afraid of big birds with a rep. of being "mean" or "agressive. And once they are common they might become popular on the American Table with the smaller family size.

 

[Omniskies]

I had no intention of being mean to Master Breeders, or anyone who shows. But a lot of people who keep geese don't show them, either because they are raising for meat or pet, or because there aren't any shows around they can attend (nothing local, they can't take the time off, etc). The focus of a show group tends to be different from the information that a backyard breeder - even one that is working to preserve the breed.

 

[Silver Spring Waterfowl]

Good morning from the frozen Texas Tundra! I think our interests go hand in hand, Omniskies, and no offense taken. I checked out your website. Very nice!! Wish I were that talented. I've been working on one for a while, on and off, but mostly off. We need one!
This is long, mayhap too long but in the interest of initial discussion, I'll throw the whole thing out there.
I agree with Goosedragon. We owe our Master Breeders and Exhibitors a lot! We wouldn't have access to these breeds at all without their hard work.

It's okay if everyone doesn't show their birds, but if some of the group doesn't, the group will miss apoint off its compass. It's one thing to have a standard and use it when making management decisions for breeding purposes, another thing to see that standard applied. Poultry judges go through years of training and their input provides invaluable objective feedback. They are human, and results will vary between individuals, but the overall feedback is intended to help us. We've made the decision to start showing for several reasons, this reason being the foremost. Every judge we've had an opportunity to talk to, even when we didn't have anything enetered, was very helpful and willing to talk to us about the judging and answer other questions we had. It's really worth the time spent at a show if you can catch up with a judge and just ask questions. Their constructive criticism oof birds we exhibit also is intended to help us, even if we don't like what we hear.

The other reasons? We, too, really love the Buffs, and my objective for them is to make them worth more alive than dead. They are meat birds, but we keep common Toulouse for table birds and have a means to sell the extra goslings at 3 days, so we can hatch as many of those as we want. This provides some bit of financial buffer for us to develop our Buffs. I also know that my Buffs are easier to sell if I let them feather out. People with will buy them for their aesthetic beauty and temperament alone and are willing to pay the extra money for an older bird. I can get more money for selling a culled Buff as a cross than for a Toulouse of same age. Sad, but true.

How can I accomplish this? I have to get them out in front of the public. It's the same with these as any other animal with the exception of dairy animals where there are documented records of production and progeny for registered animals: If they are going to be worth anything, they have to earn the distinction. The only way to get that is by showing at APA sponsored events.

I will use the example of dogs, just because I know a bit about how that works. My parents raised show dogs for many years. (I'm not a dog person.) There are reputable breeders and there are those that are not. The reputable breeders belong to the American Kennel Club as well as their national breed clubs. They show their animals, at least until they get their 15 points, at which time those dogs are considered American champions. Some also go as far as gaining a Canadian or an International championship. That's when the puppies are worth something, but even out of champions, not all the puppies will be show quality or future champions. It just tips the odds more in their favor. These breeders have earned the right to put the dollar signs on their animals. There are breed-specific health issues, breeder guarantees, certificates, and a multitude of other hidden costs that go on behind the scenes. It's not profitable raising show dogs.

Then there are the puppy mills and folks that breed for money. Their goal is quantity and not quality. You ever notice that when a breed gets special exposure (101 Dalmations, for example), everybody wants one and they seem to be available everywhere? Adds abound in the paper and online for puppies, puppies, puppies! Some folks just get 2 dogs to breed of any popular breed and start going to town under the illusion that because, again another example, rottweillers are popular, they're advertised in the paper for $800! I know people who think "Gold mine!", get a couple from anywhere, breed them repeatedly, and expect to sell them at those prices. It's a dangerous business. There are other "kennel clubs" out there offering registration and even those dogs that are registered by the AKC may have disqualifying faults and shouldn't be bred. Just because someone is offering AKC-registered puppies for megabucks doesn't mean the animals are worth it. (And I have known of one person who actually forged AKC registration papers.)

The bottom line of this boring dissertation is this: We made the decision to show because we want to build a good reputation for breeding robust, quality birds. The credentials to back that up will only come from shows and we will have to earn our own respect as breeders with our own personal integrity. Having been to some shows, it became obvious to us that we had some good stock. If we hadn't, we would never have pursued this with what we had. It would have been a complete waste of time and money.

If we want to start a group, we have to define and priortize our objectives. We will also need the support of established breeders and associations. I still have no idea (I'm too new to this, Goosedragon, can you help?) how to see who is interested in pursuing a club for geese, and specifically who was interested in actually getting to work as opposed to needing more discussion. Out of 6 responses, 4 voted that they would become part of a core group, but which 4? 2 wanted more discussion, again who? I do not know how far to take discussion on this thread and how much should be carried on via PM or email. Progress should definintely go on the thread. Discussions as I am posting here, I dunno so much.

What are your thoughts? I am open to PMs and email; however, I would not presume that same with others out of respect for privacy.

 

[goosedragon]

Sorry I really can't. I decided fairly early that even with the best stock I could not load them into boxes and haul them around the country to be poked and hassled. chance of picking up a disease which could destroy all my birds etc. I went to just one show won best of breed (against a whole 2 other birds, 1 was my other bird) there was a young person there that knew about geese and hung around admiring my breed. Come coop out time I asked if I could speak to his parents. They confirmed that it was good with them for the youth to have geese but they couldn't afford Show stock. Me and the youth loaded the birds in their boxes and he offered to carry one to my truck. 'Lets go to your truck you want this breed, let me start you off with this pair' 'But I can't afford them' 'I never said anything about selling them, you can give them a good home and the proper care can't you? If I ever need this line back again you would give me goslings right? and somewhere down the line give a good pair to someone like you to carry on the line. End of Show.
Oh I sometimes go and meet people I know from the Internet but no birds go with me. I do formulation of rations for some people and I have been offered East Coast champ lines in Muscovy and Call Ducks. I pay dues to APA and ABA and even a few breed clubs, but petty politics turn me off fast. There are great people and all kinds of nuts in the waterfowl Fancy and even the nuts are interesting but I got started too late in life to be organizing poultry clubs.~gd