Have a question on orange to red colored excrement

[Bertie-Merle]

Hey folks, I'm not a complete newbie, but still ignorant in many ways ... and this is a new one for me .... and it could be food related, but any advice would be appreciated.

I just noticed this afternoon that some of the shavings I tossed on the compost pile had a red-to-orange color to them. Not a lot, just a couple of clumps. I recently added two pullets ... one now 3 month old Blue Wyandotte and one 4-5 month old Buff Orpington ... both fully vaccinated by a reputable breeder in Galveston County.
I just mixed them in with the rest of the flock four days ago after keeping them separate across the fence for a week or so, and until then I had them inside or in a dog playpen outside but within sight of the big girls.

That said ... I'm wanting more info on how to know if seeing a couple of those reddish-orange clumps in my bedding shavings might indicate that bad Coccidiosis disease. I have added organic cider vinegar to the girls water while they were young, but I don't always add it to the "big girls" automatic water which they are now drinking..

As far as behavior, they all seem well and active. They are in a mainly open foraging environment around an approximate half acre fenced parcel of my home.

Any advice would be appreciated. I really don't want to take them to the vet if common sense can solve the question.

Thanks in advance for your help folks ... you're great ... and I appreciate the help! Barbara.

 

[Lillith37]

From my understanding it might be coccidiosis, worms or regular old intestinal shedding. Coccidiosis is supposed to affect younger birds worse but since you have new birds it is a possibility. I was seeing orange/intestine bits in my hens’ faeces recently and it turned out that two of them had tapeworm. I would keep an eye on your birds and on their droppings to see if you keep seeing different coloured ones and to see if any of them show other symptoms. My hens with tapeworm also had slow crops and went off the lay/were laying soft shelled eggs. You could treat for coccidiosis with amprolium and it won’t hurt. You could also worm them all, but different worms need different meds. If you can do the fecal float test at home or at the vet, you may get a better idea of the issue.

 

[Bertie-Merle]

From my understanding it might be coccidiosis, worms or regular old intestinal shedding. Coccidiosis is supposed to affect younger birds worse but since you have new birds it is a possibility. I was seeing orange/intestine bits in my hens’ faeces recently and it turned out that two of them had tapeworm. I would keep an eye on your birds and on their droppings to see if you keep seeing different coloured ones and to see if any of them show other symptoms. My hens with tapeworm also had slow crops and went off the lay/were laying soft shelled eggs. You could treat for coccidiosis with amprolium and it won’t hurt. You could also worm them all, but different worms need different meds. If you can do the fecal float test at home or at the vet, you may get a better idea of the issue.

 

[Bertie-Merle]

Thank you for the reply. I do fortunately live in a town with a vet that takes chickens ... but she is very "pricey". That said, I'm going to call in the morning and ask about how to bring in the samples, if possible, as I assume now my whole flock will now need to be treated.

Do you think that adding the organic "MOM" cider vinegar into the whole flock's water will help avoid this in the future, or is that just for baby chicks?

Actually, I'm now wondering what causes this in the first place, if anyone can add clarification to that issue. I keep my coop with clean soft wood shavings and scoop them every single day to remove all poop and wet shavings and re-fill with fresh shavings ... and I use a and spray of peppermint and tea tree oil every couple of days to keep it fresh and keep away bugs.

I'll know more when I take the samples to the vet ... .if I can EVER get a human on the phone. These are not the old days of my old vet where you could actually talk to them, and on a first named basis. Sighhhhh.

How much do you want to bet that this poop shaving analysis is going to cost me at least $125?

I was trying to avoid that through advice, but this is an expensive world. That said, I don't want something from one of my girls spreading to all of them.

Thanks, friends.

 

[Sussex19]

I'm not much help, I'm afraid, but just wanted to say that I don't think ACV helps with anything very much.
I have tried using it, and tried not using it, and have not seen any difference in the health of my chickens, young and old.
If anything, I may have seen more problems when feeding it rather than not, but that may just have been a coincidence.

 

[Lillith37]

I think ACV does go some way towards helping with various issues. But it’s not good to do it all the time for laying hens because it has some effect on calcium. The protozoa parasite that causes coccidiosis is in the soil and all birds carry it, but generally have immunity from exposure, so when you introduce new birds their droppings will contain their version of the parasite and introduce it to the others and vice versa and there may not be that same level of immunity. You can give buttermilk to help with their stomachs. You could treat your whole flock for coccidiosis to rule it out with amprolium and then give them vitamins after treatment (amprolium works by blocking B1 thiamine).

My vet charges upwards of AUD$200 so the float tests aren’t an option for me either. The vet didn’t even know what the chicken’s crop was. I feel for you. I want to learn to do the tests at home though.

If you suspect worms but not sure which one, you could do a general whole flock worming for common intestinal worms with levimasole or flubenzadole. If you see grain of rice-like squishy moving bits in the poo, that’s tapeworm and requires praziquantel. For tapeworm you only have to treat the bird that has tapeworm because it requires another critter to infect the chicken. A fly or beetle or worm has to eat the tapeworm segment in the poo and then incubate the larvae and then the chicken eats the bug and that’s how it gets tapeworm.

Sounds like you do a good job keeping your place clean which is great, I don’t know sometimes there isn’t a clear answer for the what or the how and we just have to observe the facts of the situation, do some research and use our best judgement. It’s stressful but at least you’re paying attention. You’ll be able to address issues before they become a really problem.

 

[Bertie-Merle]

I'm not much help, I'm afraid, but just wanted to say that I don't think ACV helps with anything very much.
I have tried using it, and tried not using it, and have not seen any difference in the health of my chickens, young and old.
If anything, I may have seen more problems when feeding it rather than not, but that may just have been a coincidence.

Thanks for the reply ... and the honesty! Much appreciated, Sussex19! The girls are healthy as far as I can tell right now. We need to pay attention, but I think some want us to be seeing more disease than we actually do .... but that may just be my view.

 

[Bertie-Merle]

I think ACV does go some way towards helping with various issues. But it’s not good to do it all the time for laying hens because it has some effect on calcium. The protozoa parasite that causes coccidiosis is in the soil and all birds carry it, but generally have immunity from exposure, so when you introduce new birds their droppings will contain their version of the parasite and introduce it to the others and vice versa and there may not be that same level of immunity. You can give buttermilk to help with their stomachs. You could treat your whole flock for coccidiosis to rule it out with amprolium and then give them vitamins after treatment (amprolium works by blocking B1 thiamine).

My vet charges upwards of AUD$200 so the float tests aren’t an option for me either. The vet didn’t even know what the chicken’s crop was. I feel for you. I want to learn to do the tests at home though.

If you suspect worms but not sure which one, you could do a general whole flock worming for common intestinal worms with levimasole or flubenzadole. If you see grain of rice-like squishy moving bits in the poo, that’s tapeworm and requires praziquantel. For tapeworm you only have to treat the bird that has tapeworm because it requires another critter to infect the chicken. A fly or beetle or worm has to eat the tapeworm segment in the poo and then incubate the larvae and then the chicken eats the bug and that’s how it gets tapeworm.

Sounds like you do a good job keeping your place clean which is great, I don’t know sometimes there isn’t a clear answer for the what or the how and we just have to observe the facts of the situation, do some research and use our best judgement. It’s stressful but at least you’re paying attention. You’ll be able to address issues before they become a really problem.

Thanks so much for your reply, Lillith. It is kind of you to take the time to be so instructive and it is much appreciated.

I did want to note that I did keep the two new pullets isolated inside for 3-4 weeks before moving them outside during the day in a dog playpen, then just moved them into the general population within the past week or so where they free forage between two fenced paddocks. All seemed to be well.

So, for my update, first thing Friday morning, to do my best to ensure I was observing new droppings, I moved all of the girls to the side paddock, completely removed all shavings in the coop and all straw from the nesting boxes, took the drop tray out and scrubbed it well and sprayed it down with a mild solution of baking soda/water/a splash of bleach and set it out in the sun to dry, cleared the nesting boxes and sprayed them with my usual tea tree/peppermint/water dilution spray. Once everything was nice and dry, (luckily I had a beautiful dry and sunny day), I re-filled fresh shavings in the coop and fresh straw in the brood boxes and let them back into their regular main paddock with the coop late Friday afternoon.

So far, as of this evening there have been no bad droppings. I'm hoping it stays that way and maybe it was something they ate. I did throw about six cherry tomatoes out with some romaine lettuce and some yellow squash trimmings earlier in the week and maybe that was what I saw and I'm just and idiot for thinking it was blood.

All of that said, I've never done worming of my 1 1/2 - 2yr old six hens, (3 Reds and 3 EasterEggers). When I picked up the Blue Wyandotte and the Buff Orpington pullets six weeks ago they suggested I worm my girls once a month with liquid Ivermectin. I didn't know that was a common practice. (I've had horses that I wormed regularly, but didn't know that was common for foul.) Can you advise on that as to whether that should be done monthly, or on some other schedule, and if so, what is the practice used to administer that ... as in through their water reservoir system?

Thanks again for your help. ; -)

 

[Lillith37]

It could just be something related to the food or their regular intestinal sloughing. I give my chickens tomatoes when it’s hot and I don’t notice any change in their droppings from that, though. I’m glad you haven’t noticed anything further amiss — that’s a good sign.

My understanding is that ivermectin has a disputed efficacy for worms but is good for biting insects — mites and certain kind of lice.

I wouldn’t worm monthly unless you lived in a tropical wet warm humid place and had noticeable ongoing issues with worms. My practice is to worm my flock for the common intestinal worms on the spring and autumn equinox and alternate worming products so a resistance doesn’t form. I will also worm them ad hoc if I see symptoms or evidence of worms. Some people don’t worm their chickens at all unless there is evidence it is required. It depends on your philosophy and experience.

Depending on which product you get will determine the method of administration. I’m in Australia and the most commonly available wormer for chickens is levimasole which goes in their water. I also got fenbenzadole which is a powder that mixes into their food. When my girls got tapeworm I used praziquantel cat worming tablets because it isn’t approved for chickens here.

Garlic and pumpkin seeds and papaya seeds are all good things to help chickens keep a manageable worm load too.

 

[Bertie-Merle]

New new birds may have been immune to their usual coccidia but are not yet immune to the coccidia at their new home.

Thanks for that info, "raingarden".

I did some reading up on the vaccines that the breeder administered and they were vaccinated for "Fowl Pox with Pigeon Pox and Avian Encephalomyelitis", "Marek's", and "Coccivac -D2", the latter which reportedly "protects against all 8 species of coccidiosis important to laying chickens". I'm going to keep an eye on them and talk to the folks at the local feed store about their suggested worming regiment for the area, as the responses I've received have had a common theme regarding local conditions warranting different treatment routines. I appreciate your help!