Help! All of my eggs look like they have detached air cells

[Nicolla]

I am on day 11 and I have 30 eggs set. I just candled them and it now looks like almost all of them have detached air cells. What should I do for them? Have them upright? They were shipped eggs and I waited 15 hours before I set them. Will they not hatch if they have detached air cells? In many of them I can see the chick moving around. Sorry for all of my questions this is my first time. Thank you!

 

[adrian]

Hi,

Detached air cells will move all around the egg when you move them. If they are doing this, in my opinion there are a few things to do to improve your odds of hatching the eggs successfully.

One, move them to an upright position, if they are not already in it. Egg cartons work wonders. In my opinion you want them very upright, not just slanted with the big end farther up, such as people often set them in Brinseas.

Two, stop turning them-- for the most part. You've turned them adequately for the first 11 days and that is very positive. This is when the embryo needs turning most of all, to help the blood vessels grow throughout the egg and to prevent the small embryo and its yolk sac from becoming stuck to one side.

From what I have learned about turning, which is more important in some birds such as parrots, it is mostly about the allantoic membrane, and its growth throughout the egg. By the halfway point in incubation, the allantoic membrane, which we see during candling as the network of blood vessels, should cover the entire egg. Which means you should see veining throughout the egg now, or very nearly. This is why during the second half of incubation, turning is far less crucial. This is lucky for your case. If I were you I would probably give them one rotation a day, in an upright position, but being sure that their air cells are always in a "normal" position at the top of the egg. Just "spin" the eggs in their cartons (if you choose cartons) once per day.

Three, I like to turn the humidity down quite a lot, if it is not already low. The air cell when detached will probably not grow. Thus, the last thing you want is to have chicks hatching in wet eggs, and if the air cells can grow, you want to encourage it as much as possible. I'm thinking quite low, like 30% or so, if not lower. Some people incubate at these percents normally. I would also highly suggest that when you go into lockdown, you refrain from raising the humidity much (if at all) until you see external pips. Then raise it to around normal for hatching; 60-65%. Your goal is to have the chicks pierce through the membrane and breathe, with what air space they have. That is most important of all.

I find that high humidity will soften the membrane, sometimes making it a bit gooey, and making the entire egg wetter. For a chick that may already have difficulty finding a dry space in which to breathe, the last thing you want is the membrane to be gooey and for there to be any liquid in its way. Usually, in most species, I do not bump humidity at all until I know they have internally pipped, but if you are very worried, 40-50% is probably a decent compromise. However, the membrane usually does not dry until it is hit by the outside air, as the inside of the egg is naturally moist. Fans will especially dry out the membrane. That is why it is probably best that you bump humidity as soon as you see the first external pip. Some eggs may be behind, but again, there are lots of compromises to be made.

You also must make some decisions. In the end, it is generally preferable that the membrane dries and the chicks must be assisted out of their eggs than the chicks drowning in their eggs before they can pip. It is a compromise I have taken before. Sometimes, or in some cases, you may need to assist, but it is possible that if you are careful, things will be all right. For example, I had an egg with a detached air cell last year, a silkie chick, and from the start of incubation I incubated it in an egg carton and only rotated it a few times. I found the less I turned it, the more stable the air cell became. So by half point I stopped turning almost entirely. Around 5-6 days before hatching I did stop entirely. I went into lockdown as I usually do, with modest humidity, and lo and behold, that egg was the very first to pop out. Fast, and energetic, and without a single issue.

It can be successful! I just highly recommend making sure you don't get the eggs too wet, and keep them upright and as still as possible from now on.

That is just my experience. Take it with a grain of salt always, because as they say, YMMV.

 

[RubyNala97]

Can you take the turning tray thing out of the mini? I have the mini Eco (it's actually my favorite incubator, I love it) and this is how I do shipped eggs in there:
(I just hand tilt them from one side to the other)

And I do stop turning shipped chicken eggs by day 16.

 

[RubyNala97]

There has been a lot of great advice given on this thread. I love this article for shipped eggs. I've had good hatches following the advice. Also, OP if those eggs had air cells that size when you received them, they were old. I would contact seller and have them send fresh eggs.
https://mbasic.facebook.com/notes/f...beth-white-via-cheryl-shires/548615281826504/

 

[RubyNala97]

I wish there was a report back telling how it went. I'm in a similar situation. shipped eggs and nearly all had a detached air sack. I had them separated into two brooders, my Brinsea and a borrowed Hovabator. After some reading I decided to put them all in the hovabator to give them a more upright position. I'm only on day 3 so not far into the hatch. I candled them before setting and couldn't see much and candled again last night and could clearly see the detached air sack in most of them. No veining visible. I'll wait until day 7 to check again.

Gapey,
How do the eggs look so far?
I am in the same situation with shipped eggs. I chose the opposite as you. I put most of mine in my brinsea(bc I honestly trust it more so than my homade incubator)
I am on day 3 and just started to turn the eggs.

This reply is for both of you above. I have done several batches of shipped eggs. Every time I have had totally detached air cells they never developed. But then on one of my previous batches of shipped call duck eggs, that all had detached air cells, 5 out of 11 eggs developed. Most of them quit at various stages throughout incubation. But I did lockdown 2 eggs and 1 actually hatched!!!! That was a first for me. So I can officially say that I had a totally detached air cell on arrival that reattached after the second week and hatched. I started tilting them in cartons after the first 24 hours. Day 2-8 are the most important days for turning. I can get into the science of it if you'd like to know why. But please start tilting those eggs ASAP!! And good luck to you both. Don't give up on them!!

 

[GlennLee]

@Joanie1975 I'd like to jump in on this old thread as well - more questions than answers, but if we share our experiences, hopefully we'll learn something.

I am in a similar situation - 10 eggs with detached air cells, in the incubator on day 12 today. I also have two more batches being shipped due to arrive tomorrow and will do things differently with these eggs right from the start.

First time with dealing with shipped eggs and it's been a steep learning curve. I didn't catch the detached egg cells until day 7 when I candled. Up until that point, eggs had been flat in the incubator and turned 5 times per day. (After the first week, I turn 3 times a day.)

So, I have the 10 eggs with detached air cells in cardboard egg cartons with the bottoms ripped out for air circulation and I have been moving them VERY GENTLY from side to side and then a quarter clockwise turn 3 x's a day. I plan to candle sometime between day 14 and 16. At day 16 I will stop turning.

I have posted in a couple of different places about laying down vs. keeping upright for hatching and am still trying to read opinions and will make a decision. One posting mentioned leaving upright until the first egg pips and then lay them all down and start lockdown. Still trying to decide what to do....

Anyway, always appreciate ideas and sharing of information. Will keep you posted.

BTW - I read that a 25% hatch rate with detached air cells is a good hatch rate. Gives us a bar to work toward and exceed.

 

[Joanie1975]

@Joanie1975 I'd like to jump in on this old thread as well - more questions than answers, but if we share our experiences, hopefully we'll learn something.

I am in a similar situation - 10 eggs with detached air cells, in the incubator on day 12 today. I also have two more batches being shipped due to arrive tomorrow and will do things differently with these eggs right from the start.

First time with dealing with shipped eggs and it's been a steep learning curve. I didn't catch the detached egg cells until day 7 when I candled. Up until that point, eggs had been flat in the incubator and turned 5 times per day. (After the first week, I turn 3 times a day.)

So, I have the 10 eggs with detached air cells in cardboard egg cartons with the bottoms ripped out for air circulation and I have been moving them VERY GENTLY from side to side and then a quarter clockwise turn 3 x's a day. I plan to candle sometime between day 14 and 16. At day 16 I will stop turning.

I have posted in a couple of different places about laying down vs. keeping upright for hatching and am still trying to read opinions and will make a decision. One posting mentioned leaving upright until the first egg pips and then lay them all down and start lockdown. Still trying to decide what to do....

Anyway, always appreciate ideas and sharing of information. Will keep you posted.

BTW - I read that a 25% hatch rate with detached air cells is a good hatch rate. Gives us a bar to work toward and exceed.

Thanks for your input. I’m on day 15 for my first batch of ordered eggs with bad air cells . I think I will candle later tonight which is when day 16 will begin. I’m debating on water candling (not sure yet ) to see if they are ok before i go through the trouble and worry for nothing.. Most are really dark eggs. I think if they are still ok, I may do as you said and leave them in the cartons until first pip. I will keep you updated

 

[GlennLee]

@Joanie1975 - day 18 and lockdown here. At the last candling I found that 6 of the eggs with a detached air cell actually healed! Yay! So here's what I'm looking at -

12 eggs total, 2 have been on their sides the entire time and development seems to be progressing normally with air cells intact.

That leaves 10 with a history of some issues, but things are looking more hopeful than when I first jumped on this thread. Only 4 still have detached air cells, 6 have healed.

4 have saddled air cells and one of those still has a detached air cell with some rolling fluid, but there's movement!

I have seen movement in 8 of the 12 and am hopeful that I will be able to beat the odds of that 25% hatch rate.

Ready to assist if necessary and keeping my fingers crossed!

Hope all is progressing well with you. How did your float test go? Let me know how things unfold. Sending good vibes your way!

 

[Sphinx]

When you candle them, can you see veining or moving chicks around?



I had some shipped eggs with some pretty mangled air cells, and the chicks survived.




This is a picture of one of my eggs with a damaged air cell. The chick hatched just fine.

I did notice that some of my chicks pipped at the wrong end of the egg and didn't even pip into the air cell at all.

 

[gapey]

Gapey,
How do the eggs look so far?
I am in the same situation with shipped eggs. I chose the opposite as you. I put most of mine in my brinsea(bc I honestly trust it more so than my homade incubator)
I am on day 3 and just started to turn the eggs.

I'm on day 6 and they aren't looking too great. So far only 3 of the 12 appear to be developing at all. If not for the detached air sacks I would have left them in the Brinsea but I do believe it's important to keep the air sack at the fat end of the egg and I don't think that would have happened if I left them in my Brinsea Mini Advance. I'm careful when candling too that I don't turn the egg upside down or the air sack might get stuck on the wrong end.

I turned the eggs from day one in the incubator I will probably stop turning a day or two earlier as a lot of people recommended.