Help! Bad case of scaly leg?

[Wyorp Rock]

@Lady of McCamley @Wyorp Rock@casportpony So he doesn't know what the other one died of. He said all his chickens end up doing that. Just stop moving and then he cuts of their heads usually or they die naturally. One of its feet is really red, I have taken new photos today I will attach. The ivermectin is called noromectin and it's 18.7g/kg. I tried to squirt water down her throat with a syringe, she didn't like it very much.

Hopefully Kim (@Eggcessive ) or Kathy (@casportpony ) will jump in as well.

I agree with @rIrs roost to definitately keep her house separately as you have been doing, do your best implement bio-security practices.

Just a question on the Ivermectin (Noromectin) you have - is it 18.7g/kg you have or is it 1.87g/gk?

The feet do look like they could have some infection. You are in Australia, so some products may be different. You could try soaking in Tricide Neo to see if that helps with the infection and inflammation. Antibiotics like Amoxicillin or Penicillin may be needed to fight infection in the feet. Do you have a vet?

More concerning is that she suddenly can't walk and is gone off food/water. After I did some re-reading/research, it looks like SLM can cause what you are seeing. If you want to try to continue to save her, you may need to tube or syringe feed her. Since she is not drinking, then getting her hydrated is most important.

Scaly Leg Mite
The scaly leg mite, Knemidocoptes mutans, is a small, spherical, sarcoptic mite that usually tunnels into the tissue under the scales of the legs. It is rare in modern poultry facilities. When found, it is usually on older birds on which the irritation and exudation cause the legs to become thickened, encrusted, and unsightly. Feet and leg scales become raised, resulting in lameness. Birds stop feeding, and death can result after several months. This mite may occasionally attack the comb and wattles. The entire life cycle is in the skin; transmission is by contact. Infections can be latent for long periods until stress triggers a mite population increase.

For control, affected birds should be culled or isolated, and houses cleaned and sprayed frequently as recommended for the chicken mite (see Chicken Mite, above). Individual birds should be treated with oral or topical ivermectin or moxidectin (0.2 mg/kg), 10% sulphur solution, or 0.5% sodium fluoride.
Reference:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/ectoparasites/mites-of-poultry

Tube feeding:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/805728/go-team-tube-feeding

 

[debid]

Honestly, when it gets to the point they won't eat or move around, I'm not sure it's worth trying to save them.

None of my scaly leg hens went off feed so I'm also thinking there is more going on.

 

[casportpony]

The ivermectin paste is 1.87% (18.7 g/kg). Almost all veterinary books and literature say the dose is 0.2-0.4 mg/kg, but some pigeon formularies suggest using as much as 1 mg/kg.

If one decides to use the higher dose using paste, the dose is 0.024 ml per pound.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

I'd also chime in that I'd try to get an electrolyte into her since she's not eating rather... than just water. That may help to give her a boost.

IF you are able to acquire antibiotics for her, the vitamins in electrolyte may not be compatible with the antibiotics...rendering the antibiotics ineffective. Some vitamins/minerals can't be taken with antibiotics...but off hand I don't remember which ones. Perhaps someone else here can give specifics on that.

 

[lechez]

Ok she's back on food and drink today! Still lame though. So how how do I work out 0.2-0.4mg of ivermectin paste per kilo? And do I put it in her mouth or on her neck @casportpony @Wyorp Rock
Thanks for all your help everyone

 

[casportpony]

Ok she's back on food and drink today! Still lame though. So how how do I work out 0.2-0.4mg of ivermectin paste per kilo? And do I put it in her mouth or on her neck @casportpony @Wyorp Rock
Thanks for all your help everyone

How much does she weigh?

Pay close attention to the decimal place of the amounts!

0.2 mg/kg = 0.005 ml per pound - five pound hen gets 0.025 ml
0.4 mg/kg = 0.01 ml per pound - five pound hen gets 0.05 ml
1 mg /kg = 0.025 ml per pound - five pound hen gets 0.125 ml

Blobs above peas from left to right:
Small = 0.1 ml = 1.87 mg ivermectin
Medium = 0.25 ml = 4.675 ivermectin
Large = 0.5 ml = 9.35 mg ivermectin

The blob above the grain of rice
0.025ml = 0.4675 mg ivermectin

 

[Lady of McCamley]

@casportpony
Thank you for having the dosages always available.
LofMc

 

[casportpony]

@casportpony
Thank you for having the dosages always available.
LofMc

You're welcome!

 

[lechez]

@casportpony shes 1950grams so 4.299 pound? Im scared I'm gonna stuff this up. So the ivermectin is 18.7g/kg and just to clarify I put it in her mouth not on her neck?

 

[casportpony]

@casportpony shes 1950grams so 4.299 pound? Im scared I'm gonna stuff this up. So the ivermectin is 18.7g/kg and just to clarify I put it in her mouth not on her neck?

Yes, give it orally.

Ivermectin is really quite safe, and there are many posts and web pages that say to use a pea sized amount. I am very anal about doses and don't feel comfortable telling people to use such a large amount which is why I go into so much detail on dosing (sorry if it's confusing).

18.7 g/kg = 18.7 mg/g. How many grams are in your tube? I think this is what you have?

In my previous posts I have given you dosing information that I have seen published in veterinary books. This book shows a wide range of 0.2 to 3.0 mg/kg. What I usually do is toss the highest, especially if there is only one reference as is the case with the one that says 2-3 for falcons (see picture below). My vet told me to use 0.4 mg/kg, but I have chosen to use 1 mg/kg instead.

The math is pretty easy with this formula. Since you know how much she weighs in grams (1950 grams = 1.95 kg) it's weight of bird in kg, times desired dose (mg/kg), divide by number mg/g.

0.2 mg/kg dose
1.95 kg x 0.2 / 18.7 = 0.02 ml

0.4 mg/kg dose
1.95 kg x 0.4 / 18.7 = 0.04 ml

1 mg/kg dose
1.95 kg x 1.0 / 18.7 = 0.1 ml

When I use the paste I transfer it to a needless syringe and give as close to the desired dose as possible, but I don't worry too much about getting the exact amount because it is *very* safe.

Does this help at all?

Above picture from this book:
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/09_therapeutic_agents.pdf

From: http://www.hopkinslivestock.com/oral_dosing_article.htm
The hole at the back of the tongue is the trachea - Nothing should ever go in there!





(just to be clear, these pictures belong to Hopkins' Alternative Livestock http://www.hopkinslivestock.com/peafowl.htm)