Help! Lice crawling all over me after holding sick hen

skylershappyhen

Hatching
5 Years
May 21, 2014
6
0
9
I know this is horribly gross and sad. We have been loosing hens off n on since October after introducing new hens. It was a rough winter some had respiratory infections. The week before last week one of the newer passed unexpectedly while I was out of town. One has had her tail feathers down since molt and will look drowsy at times then perk up. Another started to close one eye and was not too steady on her feet today. She couldn't jump onto roost so I brought her in. Shes eating and drinking but I decided to give her some dropper vitamins and electrolytes. After holding her I felt like a flea was crawling on my leg and neck. I pulled down my sweats...2 lice... reached in my hsir. Another!!! Im freaking out. Took a shower, going to itch all night. But I wonder if the lice have her sick or if she is passing and they are leaving her body?
Also they look just like human head lice!!!!!
 
 Not trying to argue or start anything, I do respect your opinion, but I've been using permethrin for years (my boss has used it for decades) and I have never once heard of an egg withdrawal period used for it (since it's topical and doesn't really enter the bird internally in any way?), nor seen, smelled, or tasted any kind of residue on or in eggs, even when eating them the day after treatment. If you have do a source for your information I'd love a link to it, if not I'd appreciate hearing your reasoning behind that idea.


"When topically applied, pyrethroids are absorbed and widely distributed to tissues, but concentrate particularly in fat and skin (Hunt et al., 1979; Braun et al., 1981; Heitzman, 1997, 2000). Residues in skin and fat are very persistent, as are residues in the egg yolk (Hunt et al., 1979; Braun et al., 1981) (Table 12)."

The portion containing reference to pyrethrins/pyrethroids starts on page 25, the quote is from page 28.
http://www.farad.org/publications/miscellaneous/layinghenseggresidues.pdf

It's a really nice paper summarizing the data regarding medication residues in egg-layer, published in 2011 so the info isn't completely outdated.
 
Last edited:
Sometimes it "helps" when an enthusiastic newbie comes on board? I actually like periodically reviewing all my old assumptions/information, so I do a lot of mentoring for interns and what not...bursting with all the information and research they learned in school. We usually end up teaching each other!

Anyway, I continued to look into it, and this paper from Europe must be where the info for my withdrawal time came from. It says that permethrin was detectable in the eggs at a very low level 2.5 ug/kg at 21 days. They made 5ug/kg the cut-off for acceptable levels, which means you could technically eat the eggs at three weeks, but I arbitrarily added a week--figured that would bring the number even closer to zero...

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB...sidue_Limits_-_Report/2009/11/WC500015598.pdf

Now this was for the cis-isomer...the trans-isomer was found to clear a lot quicker. I don't know which isomer is used in the common product...I'm going to go now to see if I can find out.


Looks like they're a mix of isomers. Here's one that's 45/55%:

http://www.drugs.com/vet/y-tex-gardstar-garden-poultry-dust.html

The info on isomers is just below the active ingredient information. If you have a different brand, you can probably look it up on the same website, or it might be on the can.


Yes. Again, thanks for all you help and links. Lord knows I hate being told I'm wrong (don't we all), but I hate spreading misinformation or inaccurate information more.

And yeah, it's always good to have fresh eyes on the subject. The more people the better, if you ask me - that's why I try hard to help any newcomers to the hobby receive good and accurate information. Someday maybe they'll be teaching people and helping newbies too (and sometimes even us experienced folks!), and I want to get them off to the best start possible.
 
Ideally you should have them blood tested to determine which respiratory disease they have, and then treat with appropriate antibiotics. If it's a severe form or type of disease you are likely to continue loosing birds unless you medicate.

Mites and lice typically won't kill a bird but it's not impossible. They will however weaken birds, and can contribute to the demise of those already sick or weak. I recommend purchasing permethrin dust and dusting all your birds, and applying a squirt of WD-40 under each wing, on the back of the neck, and below the vent after treatment. Got that advice from my avian vet, started using it in my birds and it's a LIFESAVER. Never looking back. Doesn't hurt them at all except leaving a bit of dry skin where it's sprayed.

As for the lice (based on your description they sound like Common Poultry Lice), yeah they do tend to hop on you when handling the birds. The number of lice that crawl on you usually correlate to the severity of the bird's infestation, actually. A shower pretty much always kills them. The longest they'll ever stay on a person is a couple hours; they can't live on non-avian animals because we are far too cold.
 
I know this is horribly gross and sad. We have been loosing hens off n on since October after introducing new hens. It was a rough winter some had respiratory infections. The week before last week one of the newer passed unexpectedly while I was out of town. One has had her tail feathers down since molt and will look drowsy at times then perk up. Another started to close one eye and was not too steady on her feet today. She couldn't jump onto roost so I brought her in. Shes eating and drinking but I decided to give her some dropper vitamins and electrolytes. After holding her I felt like a flea was crawling on my leg and neck. I pulled down my sweats...2 lice... reached in my hsir. Another!!! Im freaking out. Took a shower, going to itch all night. But I wonder if the lice have her sick or if she is passing and they are leaving her body?
Also they look just like human head lice!!!!!
400
the louse
 
Yuck!

Okay, first thing-- you can't get lice from chickens. Won't remove that creepy-crawly feeling, but it is a relief!

Depending on the species of louse, it could be what is making your birds sick (some suck blood, cause anemia, etc.) or it could be a side effect of sickness because sick chickens don't groom themselves properly. In either case, needs to be treated. All chickens and their housing need treatment. All bedding should be thrown away (in garbage or burned, perferably), the coop cleaned and treated, ditto for the run.
 
Thanks forvthe advice so far. Jensownzoo how would you suggest cleaning a dirt floor run? I sprinkle it with diatomaceous earth about once a month just to be safe with stuff. We try to keep everything all natural with organic food because we eat the eggs. However im willing to consider other options if needed. The chickens are pets for the children and this is absolutely disgusting!!!! No touching till I have a plan
 
Thanks forvthe advice so far. Jensownzoo how would you suggest cleaning a dirt floor run? I sprinkle it with diatomaceous earth about once a month just to be safe with stuff. We try to keep everything all natural with organic food because we eat the eggs. However im willing to consider other options if needed. The chickens are pets for the children and this is absolutely disgusting!!!! No touching till I have a plan

I totally understand trying to use organic methods, and I do the same for my flock (all organic feed and supplements), but parasites are the one place where I will always go chemical. 150 birds in my own flock, and I have never once seen a natural method kill a mite or louse infestation.

The run doesn't really need to be cleaned so much. Sprinkling DE helps, and wood ash can perform a similar function. Especially around the dust bathing areas. Sand is a great addition to the nesting boxes too; in fact DE, wood ash, and sand would be my top three suggestions for natural parasite preventatives. The coop is the main area you need to be worried about; you should remove all the bedding, including that in the nest boxes, and spray down the roosts with a permethrin liquid spray or WD-40. If it's dirt floor you can spray that down as well.

A word of caution regarding DE. Only use food grade DE! Non-food grade contains very small, very sharp particles, which can be damaging to the bird's respiratory symptoms if inhaled frequently. Food grade still contains these particles, but far fewer of them. Had this information repeated to me from a poultry expert with a PhD just yesterday at a seminar.
 
If it's just dirt, then keep treating the chickens until the louse life cycle is complete. DE will help, but not if it's moist. I don't know how your ground is right now, but mine is absolutely soggy! You can also use the permethrin dust that QueenMisha suggested in the run, but if you use that product I probably would throw the next month's eggs away. The good news about it is that it also gets most of the chicken mites as well, just in case your birds are infested with parasites other than just lice.

For future control, you can add a bit of sulfur to their dust bath. Some recommend DE here, but I think that too much will be inhaled when they are getting a really good bath in. Sulfur would keep your eggs organic.
 
but if you use that product I probably would throw the next month's eggs away.
Not trying to argue or start anything, I do respect your opinion, but I've been using permethrin for years (my boss has used it for decades) and I have never once heard of an egg withdrawal period used for it (since it's topical and doesn't really enter the bird internally in any way?), nor seen, smelled, or tasted any kind of residue on or in eggs, even when eating them the day after treatment. If you have do a source for your information I'd love a link to it, if not I'd appreciate hearing your reasoning behind that idea.
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom