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[megan chickens]

You make a great point in so many ways.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

thanks l really got to love these two babies and it was just hard to hear people tell me to kill them (feed them to the chickens). My dad once killed a mouse in a kill trap and l held a funeral for it and cryed for like 30 minutes l think part of it was to prove a point that humans are animals too, but part of it was just that mice don't go out and set traps to kill people and this world was there's before it was ares we just barged in and took over so when people kill things with out a good cause it breaks my heart and makes me mad.
what do you mean l would still be killing mice the babies died also

Hi.
I have seen you on another thread that matters to me and when I saw you post about the mice, I so desperately wanted to tell you that you should have left the babies and mama would have come back for them, but I had over 400 post to read before catching up. I know they have already passed, sorry to hear it. Please know I am not here to lecture you. But as a person who has been described as benevolent for saving worms off the sidewalk AND volunteered at a wildlife rehab center, plus being a child of GOD... hope you can hear me without being defensive! And help you to make a decision when faced with similar situations in the future being armed with a little information.

Yes, they are Gods' creatures. No, we didn't barge in and take over! God created us AND gave us dominion over ALL the animals. And he also made it a circle of life where in everything is connected and unfortunately one animal MUST die to feed another.

Even the plants are being fed by the dead animals and some other dead plants.

So... we have made the problem worse because in nature animals don't out breed their food supply. They can't, they will starve to death and that keeps their numbers in check so THEY don't take over the Earth. But when you add all the free food they want to the mix, they will breed up a storm. This is a fact of nature... they all must live within their means... and if the mice run out of water for even a short time (hours), may eat their young! It's all about resources. And if you take away their food supply, they will move on to the next place of opportunity. Humans are the only ones who don't know if they can't feed the mouth of a child they shouldn't keep having babies.

So let me ask... are you vegetarian or vegan? Who raises and kills your meat? Is it OK since you don't see it?

So... by "saving" those mice... how many other animals might go without that meal? Maybe your chickens are captive and don't need the extra nutrition. But that is how God provided for the birds of the sky and other ground dwelling creatures that hunt their FOOD. Also..... even though YOU couldn't see a way for her to get back to her babies, she would have. Many people don't see a way for predators to get into their coops yet everyday I read a post that says "help, what killed my chickens". So essentially, your good intentions killed them anyways.

Yep they are God's creatures and he would have taken care of them. It's like so many of us have been taught not to return a baby bird to the nest because "the mom will reject it." Well, that is a myth! Remember I worked at the wildlife rehab center? I am not making this up. Return that baby even if you don't see the parents as they are likely watching from near by until you go away so they can return and make sure their little family is safe. Many will take that baby and feed it stuff it was never meant to eat because they are "saving" it. My dogs caught 2 Cedar Waxwing fledglings last year. For fear of them not surviving I brought them in and started researching when I found what their call was like I realized the parents were still there because I could hear them calling. The next day, I returned the one that clearly had no injuries and watched for a while, Sure enough, that family made it back together!

The second one was taken to a rehab center to inspect for possible injuries since it wasn't acting with the same energy. But if I wasn't able to identify what they were and berry eaters, I might try to feed them meat or the dreaded bred everyone tries to feed wild birds if I didn't know they weren't raptors. So in reality, the best thing I could have done was make sure my dogs were out of the area and left the birds so their own family could take care of them.. exception being injured animals. You already saw this time around that even though we try it may not effect the outcome in a desired way. Ever heard the term that the road to hell was paved with good intentions? Well, these are prime examples and now I understand what that means. (And I hate it!) Anyways, next time you are faced with that situation, take a step back and observe the situation. You can always intervene at anytime. I'm not saying I would have done different than you... I don't know because I haven't been faced with that situation and I am a save the animal type person.

All my dogs are shelter pets, and the best! But now that I have seen your situation, I will be better armed with info if I do face it in the future! I might leave them or set a trap where I can catch them and mama (alive) so she could still raise them. And then release them back on my own property to contend with life on their own. Releasing anywhere else is not only a bad idea for their own well being, but also illegal in most places. Did you go get bottles and try to feed them?

Mice aren't just a problem for your chickens but also your dogs, yourself, YOUR FAMILY and other farm animals that eat hay which might be soiled and you can't detect because it's dry. They carry many communicable diseases including the plague, Hantavirus, Leptospirosis, and salmonella. I had never heard of Leptospirosis until a visit with my vet last week when he asked if I was getting the vaccine which come to find out used to be included in the Parvo/Distemper vaccine but isn't anymore. He informed me that it protects from whatever that Lepto is which IS spread in the urine of the rodents and raccoon and could affect my dogs. Rodents pee and poo where ever and they don't care if that's in your feed or on your bedding. And you have no basic way of stopping that... other than rodent control and collecting you feed or putting it in containers you can close at night. Hantavirus doesn't care how much you wash your hands, it is airborne.

Taken from CDC...
Leptospirosis is a bacterial disease that affects humans and animals. It is caused by bacteria of the genus Leptospira. In humans, it can cause a wide range of symptoms, some of which may be mistaken for other diseases. Some infected persons, however, may have no symptoms at all. Without treatment, Leptospirosis can lead to kidney damage, meningitis (inflammation of the membrane around the brain and spinal cord), liver failure, respiratory distress, and even death.

Plus they carry fleas, ticks, and mites, which may have fed on another diseased animal and may feed on you next, transmitting said disease. I know that you already know there is danger to you, your flock, and your family. And somehow you choose to risk all that... so dangers aside, let's talk about what can be done.... Generally speaking, rats and mice do not coexist as rats will eat mice. Oh... where is the compassion for your family and animals who are in danger, that you are worried about showing to these mice?
Remove your food daily or get closing, rodent proof containers.
Keep all materials off the ground. While they can jump and climb, they won't build a nest in wood or other things on racks 18 inches off the ground. ANY wood or other piles of debris are prime nesting spots. The fact that you watch your flock eat pinkies all the time tells me YOU HAVE A PROBLEM! The ONLY way to fix it is STOP perpetuating it. I collect my food every night, live in a major wildlife area but have ZERO rodent problem. Lucky, yes! But it has a large part do with management. No, I don't enjoy the extra work of collecting but I do enjoy the peace of mind knowing I am not helping the rodent population explode and I am protecting the health of my animals and family to the best of my ability.
For me.... I don't bother things in their own environment. Yes that would be me barging in. But my house and my coop are my domain and they are the intruders, period! And you bet I will set a snap trap and after I catch one, I use gloves to discard it and set it again for the next intruder. But once you quit feeding them, they WILL move on to better feeding grounds! Well... I have also caught them with a pair of tongs (in my house) and released them outdoors on occasion. So I guess I take each situation into evaluation and do my best at that time. But that was an accidental visitor not a free loading squatter with the intention of moving their family in and making it their home instead of mine.
I'm sorry, I know this is long. I strongly urge you to make changes where you don't face this again.
As sensitive as you are... I believe the reason God lets us have animals that we love and they die when we are kids is that it helps us learn how to cope with loss. Because one day we will loose someone so dear to us and it will hurt so bad we can't breath. So having a couple of coping tools will really help us at that point.

One thing you state is mice don't set traps to kill people. But nature is BRUTAL! They don't have to set traps because just their mere actions trying to live their life KILLS things as a side effect including other animals and humans. I used to hate humans and their evil ways (still do). But the more time I spend in nature the more I know that it's a harsh reality. Most women don't eat their babies... but mice do quiet often. A chicken innocently pecking a red spot on another chicken can turn into cannibalism. And a male bear will kill the cubs of a female in order to be able to mate her sooner. If a man did that, we would hate him.... but it's par for the course in nature. So please understand that for the most part humans are doing what is in their nature... and that doesn't make them worse than the animals. And if setting traps is what it takes to protect their family.... well, GOD gave them the knowledge to be able to do that as well as the discernment to decide when it's appropriate. We are appalled when other countries eat dogs or cats... but our shelters are killing thousands of them while many humans are starving to death even right here in the US because somehow we place more value on the life of a dog than that of a chicken or cow. And just because you haven't suffered the side effects of the rodents yet, you are placing more value on their life than that of your own family! What if someone does catch one of those diseases? I fear what may happen if you have a larger predator attack like a raccoon and it wipes out your flock but you caught it in action. Will you then just let it go so it can come back to kill another day? Or will your compassion somehow change because you realize they are as ruthless as any man? And then you have to be able to kill this animal because relocating it is illegal and dangerous for other animals as well as the one you are dropping off in some other animals territory that the original predator is unfamiliar with and on it's own without the family you moved it away from. Keeping chickens sometimes brings things onto our plates that is very unappetizing but it doesn't change that we can't just push it aside or it will pile up into a big stinking mess. Plus, you kill mosquitoes. Right? If not we night need to get you some therapy!

(joking)
So as much as humans break my heart and make me mad too

, the reality of the animal kingdom is just as terrible.

That being said... rodent control is very straight forward. Take control of the situation so that you don't face this in the future. The extra effort is worth your families life! A visitor to check for food is much different than an infestation which I think you might be hindering on. All you have to do is roll the welcome mat back up and let them find all their creature comforts somewhere else.

No death or killing required!

No food left out and no debris piles nearby.
My point in this post was to be informative and helpful. I apologize if it came across as anything other than that.
One last point. Did you hear the story last year about the park visitors who loaded up the baby bison in Yellowstone? Case in point... Leave them alone unless you KNOW what you are doing. Because you don't want to cause more harm by being uneducated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-put-it-in-their-car-because-it-looked-cold/
Bobi (sp) I know you are awesome! And that you tried to do the right thing. God has a special plan for your life and values your tender heart in a world filled with hard hearted people. You have been through a lot recently and I'm sure this was not taken lightly by you. But you know you did your best with the knowledge you had at the time! So please don't be hard on yourself over the loss. And stay a warm heart shining bright for all to see and make them wonder what YOU have that they are missing.

Best wishes!
~Alyssa

 

[SunHwaKwon]

@EggSighted4Life

Very good and helpful post.

@megan chickens I don't know how old you are (young I suppose). One thing that will help you better understand the balances and relationships between animals and their surroundings is to learn about ecology. See if you can find an age/reading level appropriate book at your school or public library to look through.

Also, here is a website that I would like for you to look through. It is a good starting point for learning about the concept of "One Health" which is focused on recognizing the interconnectedness of animals, humans, and the environment and how we can protect and heal each without compromising the others. https://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/ This is something that I recognized at a very young age but it had not taken off and expanded until perhaps the past decade.

 

[megan chickens]

Thank you very much

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Thank you very much but i know quite a lot about animals, humans, health, and all in between. I just don't have the time like some of yall to sit down and type all i know. Also haha i don't go to school

Yes, I have to decide which posts are important enough to take the kind of time I did to put into that post. And when I don't have the time I am thankful that somebody who did and also understood took their time to post a very helpful and informative take on the situation.

Megan, I urge you that no matter how much you think you know... there is always more to be learned, not just here but in general. And anyone who isn't open to learning more... well, I just feel sorry for them!

And I can promise you.... that wasn't ALL I know.

But I drew on just a few experience that I thought might make a connection to help someone with their frame of mind or give them another perspective to consider at least. And maybe help them find a happy medium. As much as I like to see things in black and white, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing situation. What works for one person may not work for another and that's OK.

What isn't OK is to know the truth but still ignorantly pursue something that is dangerous to the well being of your animals, self, and family.... under the guise that they are "God's creatures". You wouldn't invite a lion into your home. Maybe a baby one, but it wouldn't be long before you realize that that animal is a danger to you. And deadly stuff can be microscopic as well as often IS. Just because you can't see the danger doesn't mean it isn't there. Plus we are all God's creatures!! And by the time you detect illness, it may be too late. If the person does survive they often went through a lot of suffering during the recovery process including tons of shots aside from whatever symptoms may have arisen. And how many others will still be developing their symptoms or how far will it spread.

Either way, glad you know lots even if you don't always have the time or desire to share. That's what makes BYC so great is that there are so many of us, most questions can be answered.

A basic answer is often good enough. But detailed answers often come from people who go above and beyond and make it their priority to get the right information to the seeker. Not because they don't have other things to do. I assure you each of us have other stuff we can and should be doing.

HAHA, I don't go to school either!

Finished some college. I despised doing homework. But we do frequent the library. It's been a valuable resource for us. We have fun when we go and it's somehow different than the net in a more satisfying way.

Only thing I'm trying to say is please don't ever think there is nothing more for you to learn on any one subject even if they don't currently pique your interest. Especially considering half the stuff they taught us was false and now Pluto isn't even a planet?! And when they produce a study "proving scientifically" everybody jumps on the band wagon only to be told 10 years later that it was "proven scientifically" that the previous "facts" were misinterpreted and it's no longer true. In my 43 years of life so far, the more I learn... the more I realize I don't know much.... life is so intricate! And I hope I learn something new everyday until the day I die. But I hope if I am doing something that is jeopardizing my whole family, that when someone gives me alternatives I will pay attention instead of just thinking they are wrong since no one is sick YET.

I see you are fairly new to BYC and never got a chance to welcome you.... Hi, I hope you are enjoying BYC and all the great helpful people and information this community offers!

 

[SunHwaKwon]

@megan chickens
There is always more to learn, and whether you are in school or not there is nothing wrong with expanding what you know. We were not trying to talk down to you, by any means; rather, I recognize that we share some attributes and hope to share our knowledge and experience and also help prepare you for a similar experience in the future so you can understand why certain advice was given and what the responsible course of action is.

None of us know everything, and none of us should consider ourselves done with learning. I was not trying to imply that you are ignorant, and I apologize if you took it that way.

BTW, you are right. My current job gives me the opportunity to go on here in between writing reports and conducting inspections and such. I know that isn't a luxury all have or desire. Its just a way for me to clear my head every now and again because doing the same thing for eight hours straight will fry your brain! lol

 

[BobDBirdDog]

Guess I am just able to see a reality you are not prepared to accept.

 

[megan chickens]

Thank you so much you make a great point and i hope i learn new things every day as well! Yes im new here and thanks a bunch!

 

[megan chickens]

I bet it will! Thanks so much i will look into the web sight.

 

[BBCHICKS123]

Guess I am just able to see a reality you are not prepared to accept.

we very have different opinions!!! My reality it's just as real as yours maybe you can not ecspect the reality that l have been talking about