Heritage RIR vs production RIR

[NYREDS]

As I see the point Mr Hagan is making it's that the "Production Red" people selected for a set of traits, The "Show type Red" people selected for a different set of traits resulting in different appearances but both strains remained Rhode Island Reds.
As far as the New Hampshires are concerned breeders selected for yet another sewt of traits with the goal in mind of developing another breed.
I suppose the "Prodection Red" breeders might also have chosen to give the strain they selected for a different breed name as well but they didn't.
I have a fairly extensive collection of old poultry magazinesdating back as far as the late 1800s. They contain breeder ads for Rhode Island Reds that laid over 300 eggs per year but these birds weren't anything that you or I might want to reproduce for show as they bore little resemblence to "Show Type Reds". That's how old this controversy is though.
I guess for me it's kind of a so what issue.To someone says they have Rhode Island Reds & they're obviously production bred birds I can say nice! I bet they lay a lot of eggs. I they say they want to show them I explain why they won't do well in the show because that's not what they were bred for.
There are a lot of reasoms to have chickens. Some I get, some I don't. I don't understand why someone would want to keep a diapered chicken in their hous. I do understand why someone would want to develop a strain of chickens that lay a lot of eggs.

 

[7L Farm]

Quote:
I started this thread & have learned alot. I've probably made alot of people mad. Sorry, about that. I'm still confused about this breed of chicken I have but as stated I never wanted sq birds. I didn't even know that term to begin with. Rookie mistake. After, all this I think my birds are RIR wanna be. Their not production reds their different.They, have alot of RIR character. Legs have yellow an rust color ,darker feathers than a production red & seem to get darker with age. I bought them as RIR so in my mind I have RIR chickens.Along, with all the others out there.

 

[Chickanmanfromarkansas]

After, all this I think my birds are RIR wanna be. Their not production reds their different.They, have alot of RIR character. Legs have yellow an rust color ,darker feathers than a production red & seem to get darker with age. I bought them as RIR so in my mind I have RIR chickens.Along, with all the others out there.
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All I can say to this is Amen. If I buy something that is suppose to be Rhode Island Red, or rwhatever breed, then that is what I'd market it as!!!!! One exception though, Easter Eggers. I just like the sound of Easter Egger better, and I like the variety of colorse and not having to stick to a color standard.


ETA: For spelling and punctuation and (Spelling).​

 

[Robert Blosl]

Rhode Island Red from 1928 the best up to that time look at his type?
Maurice Wallace strain Canada

This is his son about two or three years latter Mrs. Donaldson line Georgia.

This is a male breed from the Donaldson line about twenty years ago Blosl strain

Feathers showing deep color from Blosls line about 15 years ago. Notice the color dark Rich Lusterous Red.

Bantams from the above Blosl male shrunk down to almost bantam size five years ago. Notice the brick shape and
Color is Dark Rich Lusterous Red.

Summary: A Rhode Island Red from 1928 to the present is brick shaped with Deep Rich Lusterous Red in Color in large fowl and banam.
If they are from 95% of all the hatcheries and called R I Reds they will be rich golden Rust colored birds with little black in the tail and tails that
have a 30 to 50 degree lift. These are the commerical production reds that where used in ROP egg laying contests beating out
the old fasion R I Reds shown above in the 1930s and 40s. It was not fair ,but the officials turned thier heads and allowed it.
Standard Rhode Island Reds that are brick shaped and have Rich Lusterous Red color and will only lay between 150 to 175 eggs in a pullet year
They are a dual purpose breed. They are breed for meat, eggs and looks or Standard Brick shape.

I hope this solves this issue.

If you want lots of eggs go with Babock 290 commerical reds if you can find them they will lay about 250 eggs a year for a pullet.

If you want Standard Rhode Island Reds like above there is about ten guys and girls out there that have them. They are very rare. Maybe 200 to 300 at the most during winter months

Thanks for your input we all have learned allot. bob

 

[greathorse]

The one thing that I think about in terms of these different types has to do with what to call them. If one simply refers to Rhode Island Reds it obviously does not define a type.

If one speaks of heritage there are a number of folks (and I sort of fit the category) of folks that believe the term heritage has taken on a commercial identity that does not serve them well. If one refers to exhibiton Rhode Island Reds there is sure to be someeone declaring they have no intent of exhibiting.

I have come to the point of describing these SOP Reds as "Not hatchery type" If I speak to standard of perfection very few folks understand that.

What to do? What to call them? Anyone have an idea?

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
I hear what you are saying, and I agree. They are simply not the same thing. ALBC says:
Terms like “heirloom,” “antique,” “old-fashioned,” and “old timey” imply Heritage and are understood to be synonymous with the definition provided here.

It seems to me the term "Heritage," is acceptable. Anyway, that is what I am calling them.

There is always gonna be someone annoyed, regardless.

 

[Lotsapaints]

I've taken to call them "breeder birds" and the others "hatchery birds" Example are my Delawares the hatchery ones were never close to the SOP weight when I bred them I don't know what they were but they didn't look like Dels. My others are at weight or a little over and have been laying almost the same as hatchery birds except the eggs are a darker color and bigger. I'll be hatching some in about a month I sure hope the chicks look like Dels

 

[spartacus_63]

This has surely been an interesting thread. I just have to comment from a different perspective. I am new to raising chickens, and yes I have RIR birds that lay LOTS of big eggs. But on to my question. Is not RIR a breed? If we were speaking of dogs it wouldn't be much different. A beagle is a beagle is a beagle. Some beagles were bred to hunt, some were bred to show and some were just bred to be pets. They are all still beagles. A good show hound will also do well in field trials, but not all do. They don't call show beagles heritage or old timers or any other such moniker. They call them beagles...and if they win a show, or have a specific honorable linage, that is often included in any documentation regarding marketing. As to the New Hampshire Reds, those are a sub set which are really RIR, but in that they have enough differing characteristic that to avoid confusion they where accepted as a different reed. Similar to the Fox Hound vs Beagle.

So much for my two cents worth.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Quote:
It is a good perspective, however you need to, generally speaking, consider hatcheries as puppy mills. Instead of dogs, birds that are a general red color (body type does not matter) are tossed together to procreate more birds that do not match a standard. All of the red birds are not necessarily of the same breed and some show green/white ticking in their feathers.

Puppy mills are generally the same. Dogs that resemble something cute and fluffy are sold for hundreds of dollars simply because they are small. Rhode Island Reds from hatcheries are pretty much the same thing. They are all a reddish color, have a single comb and lay brown eggs.

People are being misled by hatcheries stating that their birds are Rhode Island Reds when they are a mix or are an entirely different thing entirely (Production Reds).

ETA: I am not trying to say that hatcheries are bad, but everyone must choose what they are after in a flock. If they are after birds that adhere to the standard, then a hatchery is not (generally) the way to go. If you want birds that look similar to those seen in the Standard, but lay much more and are a bit smaller than a hatchery is a good place to purchase from.

 

[greathorse]

I also believe that strains are more defined in poultry than they are in dogs horses etc. Not the same species at all