How bantam breeds are created

[TGinTX]

I feel like there is a thread already, but my searches are returning 900+ pages and the first couple of pages do not contain the threads I'm searching for.
My question is how bantam breeds are created in first place. Are the full sized lines crossed with existing bantams that are closest to the offspring wanted? Or are the smallest of the full sized kept and bred together until the lines are as small as wanted? It seems like new layers make smaller eggs and smaller chickens - so are these what are used for breeding stock? Thanks in advance.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

You either breed to a different bantam breed to hurry and bring down the size and then have to rebuild that back into the pure breed or you select the smallest mature birds of that breed and breed them together for generations.

Smaller eggs equal smaller birds occasionally yes, but they still have the genetics for larger birds. They themselves just got the short end of the stick and don't have that growth

 

[Amer]

The first of the methods you mentioned is used.
In addition, some people cross existing bantams together (like Rhode Island Red and Cornish bantams to make Buckeye bantams.)

 

[TGinTX]

Thanks for the quick responses.

 

[TGinTX]

I found a suggestion in another post & thought I'd update my thread with the info provided:
I have lost the location of the original, but I think it was providing instruction from a French website...
Take a hen(s) of the breed you want to make into bantam. The hen quality needs to be of highest quality for breed and no known defects.
Take a bantam roo(s) that is nearest to that breed in traits you find important and cross the two.
Take F1 generation roo(s) that are closest to what you want final outcome to be & cross back with original hen.
Take F2 generation roo(s) that are closest to what you want final outcome to be & cross back with original hen.
The expectation is that if you selected F1 and F2 well, the F3 generation will be close to the desired smaller version of the original hen.
It sort of stopped here, but I figure you do this until you get all important traits as close as you desire & if size is off, you start with a hen from the current generation and start again with a new bantam that is closest to end result. Once size is there, I assume you start taking your off spring and use existing gene pool to try to correct other traits for the bantam breed - and hope you didn't lose a needed gene completely.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I found a suggestion in another post & thought I'd update my thread with the info provided:
I have lost the location of the original, but I think it was providing instruction from a French website...
Take a hen(s) of the breed you want to make into bantam. The hen quality needs to be of highest quality for breed and no known defects.
Take a bantam roo(s) that is nearest to that breed in traits you find important and cross the two.
Take F1 generation roo(s) that are closest to what you want final outcome to be & cross back with original hen.
Take F2 generation roo(s) that are closest to what you want final outcome to be & cross back with original hen.
The expectation is that if you selected F1 and F2 well, the F3 generation will be close to the desired smaller version of the original hen.
It sort of stopped here, but I figure you do this until you get all important traits as close as you desire & if size is off, you start with a hen from the current generation and start again with a new bantam that is closest to end result. Once size is there, I assume you start taking your off spring and use existing gene pool to try to correct other traits for the bantam breed - and hope you didn't lose a needed gene completely.

The size would be far, far , far closer to the hen than the male if you kept breeding back to the original hen.

 

[TGinTX]

project started.

 

[Stephine]

The size would be far, far , far closer to the hen than the male if you kept breeding back to the original hen.

I don’t think so, since the bantam gene is dominant, but I really don’t know mich about breeding at all…

 

[Amer]

I don’t think so, since the bantam gene is dominant, but I really don’t know mich about breeding at all…

There is no bantam gene.
Size is controlled by a number of genes, some dominant, some recessive.
Therefore breeding back to a large bird will ensure most of your genes in your offspring are large and you will get nowhere.
And if you keep breeding an actually dominant trait (like black) back to a recessive bird (like lavender) then half your chicks will be black and half will be lavender.
It is actually way easier to stabilize a recessive trait than a dominant trait since you can tell a bird with the recessive gene is homozygous without testing it.