How do I keep my dog from chasing my chickens?

[Rock Home Isle]

We have two dogs and my daughter has a dog. The dogs have been trained to be around the chickens and not harm them.

Our big dog is named Missy, she has grown up around the chickens and she has become a very efficient flock protector. If the birds make any stress or alarm noises, she's immediately out the dog door to check that all is well. She is part lab and collie, so all the right instincts were there, she just needed to be guided and trained. It took awhile, but I am pleased with the final results.

At one point we had a young Cooper's a Hawk picking doves off the bird feeder. This would cause a lot of distress to the chickens, they really seem to fear flying predators...there is a sound that they make only when owls, Hawks and other large birds are in our yard.

When the chickens started making noise, alerting that a large bird was about, Missy stayed outside in the yard.

Missy has shown that she is very good around both chicks & very young birds. When I had my replacement pullets first outside at about 4 or 5 weeks, occasionally one would get separated from the flock and start making distress peeps. Missy wluld herd these little lost birds back to the main flock. Those collie instincts really have a place in a dog that protects the flock.

The other 2 dogs ignore the chickens, and I'm happy with that...

Hi,
In the past month my family and I have adopted a medium dog mix from the pound.
We introduced her to our fowl when she got settled. 
We have six week old ducks and chickens free ranging in the day time around our yard.
My dog (Lily) is just fine with the ducks and only watches them but the chickens just drive her crazy.
I don't know why she likes the chickens so much but one day she got off her leash and ran to the chickens and
chased them all over the yard. She didn't hurt any of them, just really enjoyed chasing them. 
I would really appreciate if you could give me a few pointers on this subject.
                       Thanks a bunch!
                                lil chicklets

Dog's have a pack mentality, creatures that are not members of the pack are fair game. So you need to teach the dog...in no uncertain terms...that these birds are members of the pack.

Here's a post copied from My Coop Project, this is how I taught the dogs that the chickens were not to be chased, they were to be watched...ONLY. As yet I have not posted any of the other training...

Training Man's Best Friend...About Chickens!!

When I trained both my dogs, I used a check-cord.

Work with one dog at a time. Hook the check-cord to the collar and give the dog a nice amount of slack. Let a couple chickens out.

If the dog ignores the chickens, awesome!!!!

If the dog goes after the chickens, tell the dog "no" and set the cord. The sudden shocking jerk on the cord will serve two things. It will give you great control of the dog, protecting your chickens & it will reinforce the "no" command.

After a couple times, the dogs will understand to leave the chickens alone.

When the dogs ignore the chickens, AWESOME!!!!!

 

[saulsx]

Hello!
I have taught Lily sit, no, and stay is pretty much learned. Recently, Lily got off her leash and chased our chickens. This time, she caught one of them.
She didn't do anything to it, but came to her sense's when we got close to her and were kind of shouting. I believe in the positive reinforcement training, so we use a time out because she is very much of a people dog. Usually, 5min out on our deck will have her understand that what she did was wrong.
What do you do to punish your dog?
I can't wait for your reply!
Thanks!

Sounds like she might have been playing? I would work on curbing the urge to chase the chickens using whatever method you find works best. In our situation, our dog wasn't just chasing or playing. He locked down and wasn't letting go til he'd made a meal out of that chick. Somehow, he dropped it and my wife pulled him away, but it was too late. Oh, and if you have her on a leash, I'd be mindful of those collars with the plastic clips. When our dog pulled going after the chicks, the plastic clip part broke, so we put him in a harness.

We're continuing with reinforcement for good and bad behavior, now working on teaching him "leave it". We first had to teach him not to snatch food out of hands, or off a plate, or to basically go anywhere near people food. He has his own food. My basic method for teaching him "leave it" is showing him that I have bacon, his favorite treat, and setting it down. If he goes for it, I'll snap my fingers and give him a "NO" to let him him know it's mine. As soon as he leaves it, I'll pet him and tell him "good boy". Seems to be working well so far.

Punishment? A firm "NO" usually works, depending on the situation. Sometimes, I'll give him the command and then just start walking in another direction holding firm to the leash. He usually follows and I don't have to struggle to pull him along. That was one of the first things we started with - leash training and minding his manners. If he doesn't get it, back inside he goes. He gets removed from the situation. I have given him a swat on the backside with the bristle end of a broom, or a rolled up newspaper, a couple of times for making an egregious mistake.

I make him wait to start eating his food til after I've poured it into the dish, stepped out of the way, and said "OK". When we first got him, he would already be eating as I was pouring it out of the bag. I also make him wait til I step outside first, then he follows, and I go back in first and he follows, when we go out for walks.

I probably won't ever trust him to be out on his own and off the leash, though, and not free roaming out with the chickens. Certainly not unsupervised. Too many issues since we've had him with chasing and running off, and he got away from me one to day to run off and harass the neighbor's donkey. Can't have that. I do, however, intend to teach him that the chickens are ours and he has to leave them. He absolutely can't chase any more, so we're working on reinforcing that.

That's about the best advice I can give.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I'd actually take a different track with your dog. I learned a lot through the 7 Guide Dog for the Blind puppy raising projects (over 7 years) our family did, so I know a bit about reinforcement training. I can tell you the "Guide Dog" way to approach a situation like this. (I have used it with my own rescue Rat Terrier who now is pretty good with not chasing chickens, yet will chase rats and squirrels through chickens without chasing the birds themselves).

Positive reinforcement means to give a treat or reward at the moment the dog does something you want it to do. Negative reinforcement means to give a punishment or negative consequence the moment the dog has done something that you do not want it to do.

Dogs have a 3 second rule. If you do not provide negative or positive reinforcement within 3 seconds of the event, it is highly unlikely the dog will attach the consequence with THAT behavior (and still won't unless the reinforcement is done correctly and with the right kind). The time out is completely ineffective for chasing chickens, which is why she is still chasing chickens. The submission you are seeing when you return in 5 minutes is not contrition and acknowledgment she has done something wrong but rather a submissive dog requesting to re-enter the pack. That's normal behavior when she sees you as dominant, but it is NOT attaching any kind of connection with chasing the chickens.

Dogs are also opportunists and quickly reinforce behaviors they find rewarding. The thrill of chasing the chickens itself is a positive reward for that behavior in your dog's mind. Once done, and achieved, the dog will look for opportunity to perform that "fun" thrill again, unless you convince it there is something better or that chasing chickens is not the good thing it once thought.

You absolutely, positively, must remove all opportunity for your dog to chase the birds, on leash or off, until you have established behavior modification. You must make it clear in her mind that chasing chickens does not offer positive stimulation....or quite honestly, you are sunk and your dog will continue to look for opportunities to chase chickens.

I highly, highly recommend training your dog to be reliable with chickens, as much as possible, so that if a dog does get out, it won't go for the chickens the second it hits the backyard off leash.

As you like to focus on positive reward (which is very good), then load up on food treats...her absolute favorite, over the top, I would crawl on my belly over hot coals to get that kind of treat. Break them into small pieces as you will be giving a lot of them quickly and you want her to receive a full boost of flavor the moment the treat hits her mouth.

Since you have some behavior already becoming entrenched, I would start with teaching the "Leave It" command. With her on leash, I would do set ups with objects that you don't want her to get...such as placing a piece of food on the floor. She must NEVER get this piece of food or you have done the exercise incorrectly and reinforced her ignoring you to get what she wants.When she goes for it (with her on leash), tell her "LEAVE IT" and if you are of the mind (it will be most effective for the lesson especially the first time) give a quick leash correction. A training collar works best, but a flat will do...I like what is called a Martingale which is flat with a bit of chain. During the leash correction, give a quick, firm downward stroke, then quick let up. It should be as if the "Leash Monster" bit like a snake. It's that quick. She will almost always look at you in surprise with a "what happened" look. When she does, at that very moment you are all smiles and good things in your being...At the instant she looks at you reward her with "Good Dog" or "Nice" and a food treat in one motion. She must always attach you with everything good, and any negative "bad" with the evil "Leash Monster."

Then immediately walk away from the food on leash. Approach it from a different angle. When she looks at the treat, chances are she will immediately look at you as she is insecure. (It's hysterical but many dogs think the food actually bit them). Immediately smile and praise her with either "Nice" or "Good Girl" and give her a food treat in one motion. She must connect the positive behavior (looking away from the forbidden object) with your verbal reward and the food treat as one motion. If she goes for the treat again (most don't, but some do), repeat the leash correction and quick smile/voice praise/food treat as she looks back at you. Repeat one more time then you are done for the day.

As you attempt the next day, or the day after, but soon, she will begin to look at you rather than the forbidden food object Reward instantly the moment she looks at you. Begin to walk around and approach from different angles. Put the treat in different places. If she sniffs or looks intently at the treat either leash correct or give a firm "NO" or "ACH" "Leave It" The moment she responds by leaving it give the "Nice" or "Good Girl" command and immediate food reward in one motion. Watch her as you work through the exercises. As she tunes more and more into you reward her for focusing into you...especially as you go by the treat and she hasn't even looked at it. Now you have her attention and she is zoned into you for positive reinforcement (hopefully leaving the negative reinforcement behind for this exercise).

Continue practicing "Leave It" commands in short sessions until she has it down. Change food objects. Always keep early sessions in a very controlled environment like your living room or kitchen so that she cannot become distracted or get into something she shouldn't. Do NOT do this in the backyard with the ducks or chickens.

Once she is capable of a solid "Leave It" command without needing any kind of negative reinforcement (leash connection or "NO" or "ACH"), then on leash, away from chickens, approach your ducks. Watch her as she looks at the ducks. The moment she looks away from the ducks and looks at you (she isn't that interested anyway), reward her with "Good Girl" or "Nice" and a food treat. She should be putting the pieces together now. Approach the ducks from a different angle. Again reward her for looking away. Walk through the ducks. Reward her. If she tries to interact at ALL with them, even in a minor way (looking intently even in curiosity) tell her to "Leave It" and reward her immediately as she does so.

After you have reinforced that behavior with the ducks so that she is very competent...then...under controlled leash conditions with a helper in case she gets too excited....take her on leash up to the chickens. Watch her behavior. The second (she probably already is staring) she looks at the birds, tell her to "Leave It." Hopefully she will instantly look at you. If she does "Nice" or "Good Girl" and food reward. If she doesn't, you'll need to give a leash correction (lighter) or verbal correction. If you have done the prior exercises correctly, she will look at you and away from the chickens. The moment she does give verbal praise cue and food reward in one motion. Walk away from the chickens. You are done for that day.

Keep the sessions short and keep working her through walking up and around the chickens without looking at them. Reward her every time that she looks at you and away from the chickens. If she gets silly and out of control, leash correct, tell her "NO" and walk away from the situation. Drop back to the ducks or food on the floor until she can become more controlled again.

In time she should be reliable to walk on leash with the ducks and chickens.

Now the big step....you'll be back at the kitchen floor for this one. Place a long drag line on her...about 6 to 8 feet...one you can step on to bring her back under control if she gets silly or giddy and runs away from you. Begin with her on drag line with the kitchen set up (food, cat, whatever she might go for). Use the same "Leave It" command with negative/positive reward system. She should transition pretty easy as she will be eager to please you and get the treat so she may just walk over and sit by you. This is a major victory. Praise and food treat. You can give 2 or 3 successive quick treats as a "jack pot."

Now the next test...yup....you take this outside on drag line with the ducks. Watch and positive reward as she looks away from the ducks and looks at you. Chances are she knows the game by now and will come and sit by you for her treat. (You should also be teaching the sit command as a submission act by now as she looks up for you for her treat).

And now the final test....you begin with the chickens on drag line. By now she should be really good at the "Leave It" command and should know to drop whatever to return to you. If she doesn't, stop her with the drag line. You must not let her chase the chickens not even for an instant. If she can't remain under control with the drag line, go back to the leash walk throughs.

As she advances and becomes reliable on the drag line, eventually you should be able to have her off leash and line without concern IF you are with her in the backyard. DO NOT let her alone with the chickens until you are absolutely confident she is trustworthy (which may be never at that level...depends on the dog...you just want her to be perfect with you present...chances are she won't immediately run to them if she gets out when you are gone...but she MIGHT...and that will set you back weeks/months of training).

That would be my approach. It is very intensive, but if you are consistent, you should see marked improvement within a week or two with the "Leave It" and may see transition to drag line within a month or so...depending upon the dog.

I have worked with my Rat Terrier rescue (who was a feral dog the first year of his life) who chased the chickens on sight. He now is much, much more reliable and even chased a rat through the chickens without disturbing the hens. (I reward him for chasing the rats). I still don't trust him completely, and honestly need to follow more of my own advice and do some back drag line training to avoid any chicken charges, but he responds quickly to a "Leave It" and returns for treat 100% of the time....ignores the chickens 50 to 75% of the time even off leash. I've been working with him since February in the yard.

I hope you find something helpful in my long answer.

Good luck with her.
LofMc

 

[saulsx]

You absolutely, positively, must remove all opportunity for your dog to chase the birds, on leash or off, until you have established behavior modification. You must make it clear in her mind that chasing chickens does not offer positive stimulation....or quite honestly, you are sunk and your dog will continue to look for opportunities to chase chickens.

I highly, highly recommend training your dog to be reliable with chickens, as much as possible, so that if a dog does get out, it won't go for the chickens the second it hits the backyard off leash.

As you like to focus on positive reward (which is very good), then load up on food treats...her absolute favorite, over the top, I would crawl on my belly over hot coals to get that kind of treat. Break them into small pieces as you will be giving a lot of them quickly and you want her to receive a full boost of flavor the moment the treat hits her mouth.

Good luck with her.
LofMc

Oh yeah, we went through a lot of treats early on, and I learned quickly that I had to break them into little pieces or I'd go through a million of them.

Great post! Actually helped me a bit

 

[TalkALittle]

@Lady of McCamley that's actually not what negative reinforcement is. Your training method is sound, but your terminology is off.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

How is my terminology off?

Negative reinforcement is negative consequence you create for behavior you do not want typically in the form of physical correction (leash or shock collar or spray bottle).

Positive reinforcement is positive consequence ypu create for good behavior you do want typically in the form of food treats, praise, toy or play rewards, etc.

Different systems define and use positive and negative tools differently, but the basic concepts run along the general principles I gave...at least in Guide Dogs, Dog 4H, and Agility courses I have done over the years...and it was used as such in my daughter's Vet Tech program with the home stay dogs used in the program.

The method I suggested to the OP combines both positive and negative which I have found highly effective for most, but not all, dogs.

I use very, very little negative with my rescue Rattie as he is a sensitive dog and had been neglected such that he was originally fearful of human interaction. Like my Sheltie before him, I focus heavily on positive reinforcement....which I now point out to the OP....sensitive dogs require a light touch and lots of positive reward. Only use enough force to interrupt the prey drive which can be so focused and intense that usually some negative is required.

More intense breeds, and those especially goofy good natured but oft somewhat dense, like labs, can benefit more easily from negative reinforcement if never harsh but well timed to meet the behavior.

There is no one size fits all program for any dog as you must always tailor the positive and negative for the dog and the situation and the relationship you have built with the animal.

 

[TalkALittle]

What you're calling negative reinforcement is really called positive punishment.

Positive reinforcement=add a pleasant consequence when the dog performs a desired behavior to increase the occurrence of that behavior.

Positive punishment=add an unpleasant consequence when the dog performs an undesired behavior to decrease the occurrence of that behavior.

Negative reinforcement=remove an unpleasant stimulus when a dog performs a desired behavior to increase the occurrence of that behavior.

Negative punishment=remove a pleasant stimulus when a dog performs an undesired behavior to decrease the occurrence of that behavior.

Trainers and behaviorists use these definitions. Most everyone gets positive reinforcement right since It pretty much means the same thing in layman's terms. The others can be confusing since positive and negative don't mean "good" or "bad".


You sound like you're pretty knowledgeable about training. Take a look at operent conditioning and learning theory. You'll probably find the topics quite interesting.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

What you're calling negative reinforcement is really called positive punishment.

Positive reinforcement=add a pleasant consequence when the dog performs a desired behavior to increase the occurrence of that behavior.

Positive punishment=add an unpleasant consequence when the dog performs an undesired behavior to decrease the occurrence of that behavior.

Negative reinforcement=remove an unpleasant stimulus when a dog performs a desired behavior to increase the occurrence of that behavior.

Negative punishment=remove a pleasant stimulus when a dog performs an undesired behavior to decrease the occurrence of that behavior.

Trainers and behaviorists use these definitions. Most everyone gets positive reinforcement right since It pretty much means the same thing in layman's terms. The others can be confusing since positive and negative don't mean "good" or "bad".


You sound like you're pretty knowledgeable about training. Take a look at operent conditioning and learning theory. You'll probably find the topics quite interesting.

I looked up your terms and can see why GDB, Youth 4H, and sport agility programs massage the terms. You can't use "punishment" terminology when dealing with the general public so the terms are used in training programs for those organizations as I gave them.

As a GDB raiser, you had to really address the public's perceptions of what you were doing, what the dog was doing, and there was a lot of politics going on to help the public perceive the training as always something positive for the animal. (I occasionally had people chastise me for leash corrections in public during the program...one reason the program has shifted within recent years to heavily focused positive reinforcement and what you would term negative reinforcement with almost never positive punishment...leash correction...any more).

Thanks for the terminology check.
LofMc

 

[TalkALittle]

The dog training industry has seen a huge shift toward more "dog friendly" methods which I see as generally a good thing. However, I don't think trainers should be villified for judicious use of positive punishment, nor ridiculed or berated for preferring not to, provided the result is a happy, motivated and reliably obedient dog.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

The dog training industry has seen a huge shift toward more "dog friendly" methods which I see as generally a good thing. However, I don't think trainers should be villified for judicious use of positive punishment, nor ridiculed or berated for preferring not to, provided the result is a happy, motivated and reliably obedient dog.

Agreed!

There is a place for both in the hands of a wise trainer.

LofMc