I have a question about Clostridium perfringens

[mithious]

Can one bird in a coop have it? I had thought that it was from it being so hot lately, but just read about it and was wondering, since it is caused from "off" food or bad meat, and all of the chickens in that coop eat the same thing, but only one has a real watery poop, could it be possible that only one chicken has it, or would more be ill? There are 15 birds in that coop and they all eat the same food.

Thanks for any and all input and info!

 

[mithious]

Hey all, before I go get antibiotics and treat the lot, could anyone with information on this illness pipe in please? This cockerel is in with my layers and I sell eggs, so before I take drastic measures with meds, please???

I have Goggled the illness but nothing comes up about only one out of 15 becoming ill....thanks again!

 

[Eggcessive]

As far as I know, one bird can get it. C. perfringens is in the soil everywhere. Chickens who have had coccidiosis, high protein diets, have been sickly, or who have eaten certain grains (wheat and rye) in their diets may be more prone to getting it. A knowledgeable member, Nambroth has had a chicken with it and has a thread about it. Many antibiotics such as chlortetracycline, amoxicillin, penicillin, erythromycin, bacitracin, neomycin , and lincomycin will treat it. Here are some links about enteritis:
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pou...verview_of_necrotic_enteritis_in_poultry.html
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseaseinfo/101/necrotic-enteritis

 

[Eggcessive]

I think this is the right thread from Nambroth about clostridium perfringens: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/613918/undigested-food-in-droppings-update-on-page-3

 

[casportpony]

Just curious, how do you know that's what it is? To answer your question, yes, just one could have it. It would be best to have a vet look at a poop sample microscopically to check for bacteria and yeast.

-Kathy

 

[KayTee]

I also had a chicken suffering from what I believe was Clostridium Perfringens, and it was the information in Nambroth's thread that helped me to save her.

My local vet didn't have a clue - the only thing he checked for in the poop sample I took was worms! However, I am convinced that it was CP - her poop was very similar to the photo in Nambroth's post - green, with undigested grains and bits of grass, and often quite 'explosive' when she pooped, as if she had gas in there as well. It also had a strange smell - almost sweet, but not quite - not stomach-turning, but then again not something you would choose to smell - it was really very bizarre, and I have never smelt chicken poop like it before or since.

If you think that it really is CP then there is no need to treat the whole flock. I used to keep my sick girl back each morning when I let the others out to free range, and give her a medicated dose of boiled white rice. Once she had finished it she went out to free range with the flock for the day. That way I know that only her eggs may be contaminated with antibiotics, and I keep them for my own consumption. (The whole 'residual antibiotics in eggs for life' debate is one best saved for another thread, as I could go on for a long time about it!)

Giving your whole flock antibiotics would be counter-productive if they are not sick. I am convinced that my girl got sick because she gorged herself on meat that all of them had eaten, but she ate so much that she got a blockage in her crop and the meat went off, causing the problems. (My own fault - lesson learned!)

In case it can be of any help, the link to my thread is here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...r-posts-on-byc-a-public-thank-you-to-nambroth

 

[casportpony]

@KayTee , any vet can check for bacteria. Not sure why your vet didn't, shame on them, but glad you figured it out. The reason I suggest having a vet look microscopically is that Clostridium is a gram positive bacteria, but something like E. Coli is gram negative. Knowing what type the bird has will make choosing the right antibiotic easier. FWIW, I had one that was passing undigested seed and grass and her gram stain revealed gram negative bacteria. Also had a hen that did the same, but she has a yeast infection.

• Office visit - $45
• Gram stain - $30

Money well spent, IMO.

-Kathy

 

[KayTee]

@KayTee , any vet can check for bacteria. Not sure why your vet didn't, shame on them, but glad you figured it out. The reason I suggest having a vet look microscopically is that Clostridium is a gram positive bacteria, but something like E. Coli is gram negative. Knowing what type the bird has will make choosing the right antibiotic easier. FWIW, I had one that was passing undigested seed and grass and her gram stain revealed gram negative bacteria. Also had a hen that did the same, but she has a yeast infection.

• Office visit - $45
• Gram stain - $30

Money well spent, IMO.

-Kathy

I agree Kathy, if you know what to ask for then it is definitely money well spent.

The problem that so many of us face is finding a vet who knows anything at all about chickens. I live in rural France, where lots of people keep flocks of chickens for eggs and meat, but almost no-one keeps them as pets. If a chicken gets sick, they just cull it, and since antibiotics are not licenced for egg producing chickens they just don't bother to go to the vet. As a result, the vets around here know a lot about dogs, cats and cows, but very little about chickens!

Of 5 vets I called, this was the only one who would see me, and he really didn't have a clue. Since I didn't have any idea either, I never thought to ask for a gram stain, which would have provided a lot more information. Lucky for me the antibiotics I had were suitable for what was wrong with my girl, but it would have been so much better to have been more informed, instead of trusting to luck. Next time I will definitely think to ask!

 

[Nambroth]

I also had a chicken suffering from what I believe was Clostridium Perfringens, and it was the information in Nambroth's thread that helped me to save her.

My local vet didn't have a clue - the only thing he checked for in the poop sample I took was worms! However, I am convinced that it was CP - her poop was very similar to the photo in Nambroth's post - green, with undigested grains and bits of grass, and often quite 'explosive' when she pooped, as if she had gas in there as well. It also had a strange smell - almost sweet, but not quite - not stomach-turning, but then again not something you would choose to smell - it was really very bizarre, and I have never smelt chicken poop like it before or since.

I wanted to bold this for emphasis. I don't know if I mentioned it in my old thread or not, but this describes the odor very well. Not that I am a connoisseur of chicken poop odors (I never thought I'd be saying that) but when you work one on one with a sick bird that has, essentially, explosive poo.. you notice the smell.

The gut gas-- which avians normally do not get the way mammals do- combined with the undigested bits and the odor seem to be large clues as to figuring it out. Adding in a fecal exam by a vet knowledgeable in looking for gram negative/positive bacteria, and a diagnosis can be made.

 

[Nambroth]

You have some great answers here. If you can, it is worth it to get a gram strain run on a fecal sample from your affected bird. Some vets may not even require a visit if you can provide them with a clean, unadulterated sample of fresh droppings from your bird.

If you absolutely can not do the vet visit/fecal exam of your bird, then I agree that your best option would be to treat only the single bird with an antibiotic known to treat Clostridium.

And yes, only one bird can get it. It has been my experience and the experience of others that in general it tends to be birds that either get into things they shouldn't (like compost piles, etc) or birds that are easily bullied or pushed off of the feed by others and will eat findings in the soil. Birds with weaker immune systems also seem more prone.

If your rooster is anything like mine, he will starve himself before he pushes the hens off of feed, and may be picking for spoils in the soil, mud, etc.
Or, if he is a young rooster, he may be getting pushed around by the older birds.Or, maybe he is just assertive and just managed to find a bit of nasty stuff to eat. It is common especially if any feed gets tossed outside and sits in the dirt or mud for a while. If your weather has been like my in the North East, it has been a wet summer so far!

Can you describe his symptoms in detail, and maybe share a photo of his droppings?