I have lots of questions about mites

[BesideStillWaters]

I've been reading different threads and different articles on mites and some opinions seem to conflict, so I was hoping to get some clarification on a few things.

What I'm dealing with:

I had one chicken, Banshee, that had an injury and was bullied when I tried to reintroduce her to the flock a week later. I had chicks in our bathroom that I raised and they were way too big for the little cage, so I moved the chicks into the large cage and moved Banshee into the small cage in the bathroom. I was horrified to see mites in the bedding a few days later. Found it it was in the feed. I took her and the cage outside, cleaned everything I could (some mites on the floor but thankfully it wasn't any worse than that) and sprinkled seven dust on the floor where the cage was for good measure, in case I missed a few when sweeping and cleaning.

Fast forward another few days, and the flock starts shaking their heads a LOT and I thought those killer buffalo gnats were bothering them again, so I sprayed them with vanilla. This time, it didn't help. I didn't see any signs of mites around the vent, so I was so confused. (I couldn't check every chicken though, because most don't appreciate me picking them up and looking at their backsides. ) But when I picked up one of my roosters, Bae, and got VERY close to his face, I could see tiny glimmers of something shining off his face. I think they may be Northern Fowl Mites. My friend found this article: https://www.hobbyfarms.com/parasite...AjthSDHo8HwyOCGmNIX1kfMybtXbbNv1D9OJICx1_ZrtQ However, they aren't red, they are more grayish white looking to me, so I'm wondering if they are juvenile mites...? Whatever they are, I want them off the chickens, obviously.

The questions:

If these are Northern Fowl mites, what are the odds some of those got loose in the bathroom while Banshee was in there? I also brought Banshee into the master bedroom (carpeted room) when I first brought her inside to show my bed-ridden dad my beautiful girl - what are the odds any dropped off Banshee and onto the carpet in there? I seven dusted the carpet after bringing Banshee in just to be safe, now I'm glad I did, but I'm still a nervous wreck.

Some people say chicken mites don't go for humans, and others say that's a myth. This is one place that says they WILL bite humans but are unable to complete their life cycle. (I'm assuming this means they are not able to reproduce?) https://dermnetnz.org/topics/bird-m...AjthSDHo8HwyOCGmNIX1kfMybtXbbNv1D9OJICx1_ZrtQ
"Although they may feed on human blood, bird mites are not able to complete their life cycle on humans and they do not burrow beneath the skin." (So on chickens they burrow beneath the skin?! Wha?)
However, I found someone linked to this and it says it has been known to feed on humans. http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/livestock/poultry/chicken_mite.htm So does this mean they will feed on humans but cannot reproduce? This is very confusing.

If I handle the chickens, will these mites get on me, and if they do, will simply showing get them off? I don't want to spread the mites to our house or other chickens. However, when I discovered the grain mites, I moved Banshee's small cage and put it on top of the large cage (with cardboard between the layers to prevent Banshee from pooping on the chicks). I have a feeling it may be too late and the damage is done at this point.

Looks like some people prefer seven dust and others prefer permethrin to get rid of these things on the birds themselves. I have one rooster that we bought last year that I can't catch. If I mix up some DE and seven dust to add to the dust bathing area and let him dust himself, will that take care of any mites on him? (Otherwise I don't know how I can get rid of the mites on him if he has any.) The one thing that seems fairly consistent is that DE is useless to kill but might be used as a preventative. Since it rained and the ground is wet, I wanted to offer DE and seven dust in the place of the dirt. (I'm also looking into ordering some permethrin dust, but it will take a few days to ship. Wanted to try something in the meantime.)

If I have any other questions, I'll add them here later, but I think this is a pretty good start. I know the first thing I need to do is clean out the chicken house and cover everything in permethrin, so I'm going to do that shortly. Any advice is welcome!

 

[HiEverybirdy]

I can't answer all your questions but can share about our experience with northern fowl mites. We started seeing them last year, during the Great Mite-splosion of 2020. Thank goodness that's over.

Mites do glimmer but are generally brown. It's possible your gray things are something else, like lice. Photos from a few of the birds [who you can catch] might help. If you can't get to their vents, you can also check bases of their neck feathers and back feathers near their preen gland.

I've not been bitten by a mite. During the mite-splosion, they were all over my arms many times those first few weeks (ARGH, they're so creepy), but shower/laundry did the trick.

The most helpful chemicals in our mite fight have been the following (if they end up being lice, you'd likely use the same kinds of chemicals but different dosages).

• GardStar Garden and Poultry Dust ($8-ish at TSC)
• Elector PSP (it was like $130! on Amazon)
• Pour-on Ivermectin for birds whose meat and eggs we don't intend to sell, since it's not approved for food-producing livestock, which is a whole other conversation ($22 at TSC)

Others have had great luck with the liquid Permethrin. It did nothing for us. Maybe I mixed it wrong or just tried it too early in the journey, when nothing would've worked very well.

I'm not a big fan of DE for many reasons, so can't comment much on it, besides to say I wouldn't mix DE or the Poultry Dust with their dustbaths, as they breathe and eat what they dustbathe in.

In our experience, good dustbaths are incredibly effective on their own, without added chemicals. Once we got the birds and their coops as mite-free as possible, they've been able to kick most recurring mites with regular dustbaths.

We do add fresh garlic to their water from time to time. Not sure if that helps, but in moderation, it doesn't hurt.

I've only ever had to dip one bird, the one with the worst mites, our big rooster. That was before I learned about Ivermectin and after trying liquid Permethrin and poultry dust for a month and seeing mites return weekly. I was at wit's end, so invested in the wildly expensive Elector PSP, mixed the recommended dose with warm water in a storage bin, and he LOVED it. You've never seen such a proud, wet chicken. It was obvious he felt immediately better.

The others got spritzed on vents and under their wings, and I sprayed down the roosts and all the crannies around the coops. Repeated the process in 2 weeks (except just spritzed the rooster instead of dipping him again). We were mite free for a couple months. Recurrences have been far smaller than mite-splosion. Of course, I also catch them more quickly because I know what to look for now.

Good luck in your journey! Such a pain in the butt to find those things, but with a little diligence, you can kick them. There are much worse problems to have.

 

[HiEverybirdy]

Oh! A few more things:

- Mites percolate for some time prior to us seeing them, so don't go blaming yourself for spreading them around. They've spread long before we even detect their presence. That's why you treat the whole flock when you see mites on one bird, particularly in the beginning.

- The internet is a blessing but can be exhausting in how much conflicting information is out there. I was in the same boat as you in not knowing what to believe. Time and experience will help greatly, as your truth will be different than anyone else's when it comes to what works.

- That's sweet of you to share your chickens with with your dad I know chickens would cheer me up all kinds of ways if I were bed-ridden.

 

[Kellow1]

Don't use Seven Dust to treat your egg laying chickens. It has been banned and has permanent egg withdrawal!!

 

[BesideStillWaters]

Don't use Seven Dust to treat your egg laying chickens. It has been banned and has permanent egg withdrawal!!

What??? We've used seven dust (5%) for years. My parents used it on the chickens we had when I was a teen with no problems. Why was it banned? We also ate the eggs and it was fine.

Found this:

Permethrin works too and is approved for use on chickens. That’s probably your best way to go.

Sevin was approved for use with chickens, the 5% stuff, until a couple of years ago. It’s now considered off-label. It’s not that they learned anything new about it, their main research on it is from the 1970’s and 1980’s. They’ve changed the way they look at whether something is recommended or not. It used to be “does it do harm”. Now it’s whether or not there is any residue after a time period.

Poison is poison. If it is meant to kill, it is meant to kill. No matter which one you use try hard to not breathe the fumes or dust. A face mask is a good idea. Treat the chickens in an open well-ventilated place. Of course, wash up and change clothes after you treat. That’s normal precautions anytime you us a poison. I’d suggest you treat the chickens and the coop fairly early in the day and open the coop up so it can air out. Even if it were late in the day when you treat I’d still keep them in the coop overnight.

I spoke to a poultry medical expert a few years back about using Sevin to treat mites and lice, back when it was on-label. He said there was no withdrawal period for the eggs if you treated with Sevin. That means you do not have to wait a day or two before you can eat the eggs after treatment. I’m not familiar with using permethrin to treat chickens for mites or lice, if there is a withdrawal period on the eggs or not. I suspect there is not but I have not checked into it. If your product is recommended for use on chickens (on-label) read the label and see if it says anything about withdrawal periods. If there are any concerns it should say something. If it doesn’t say anything about withdrawal periods I would not be concerned about it.

You probably know this. If one chicken has them they all do so treat them all. Treatment will not kill the eggs so treat again in a week to 10 days to get the ones that hatch out. Good luck on getting rid of them.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Your chickens shouldn't wake up when you go in the coop at night if you keep it nice and dark in there. See if you can find a flashlight with a red light option. That shouldn't disturb them much. If you must use a regular flashlight, use a small one and keep it aimed at the floor as much as possible so they can't see to move around much. Good luck!

 

[HiEverybirdy]

Your chickens shouldn't wake up when you go in the coop at night if you keep it nice and dark in there. See if you can find a flashlight with a red light option. That shouldn't disturb them much. If you must use a regular flashlight, use a small one and keep it aimed at the floor as much as possible so they can't see to move around much. Good luck!

Red light is a good idea. Our first flock has always woken up when I go in after dark, and may like to ramble down the roost ladder for a drink of water and to say hello. I suspect it's a bad habit I taught them in the brooder. They were brooded in my study, and I used to go sit with them in the evenings (nothing else to do; COVID). They'd hop out of the brooder and come roost on me for 30 minutes before heading back to the heating plate. The upside is they're a very tame group and easy to treat.

I didn't do that with the next chicks. If you go into their coop after dark, they just give you side-eye and go back to sleep.

 

[NorthwoodsChick]

I managed to get photos, and unexpectedly, Wild Thang (the boy I couldn't catch) is fine with the camera. Just no touching him. So I have photos of him. It's bad. There are more than I first thought.

View attachment 2683995

View attachment 2683998

The best I can see in the vent area:

View attachment 2684008

In the center of this photo is some bug that gt on m when cleaning the chicken house and it bit me. it really stung whatever it is.

View attachment 2684001

This is another bug I found:

View attachment 2684004

It's kind of hard to see, but in the center of this photo is what I suspect are red mites? There were a ton of these in the chicken house and run, but none that I saw on the chickens. They like to hang out on the poo nad under the food and water dishes:

View attachment 2684006

is anyone else itchy and feel compelled to shower after seeing these little terrors from Hell? I'll be imagining bugs on me all day.

 

[BesideStillWaters]

Oh! A few more things:

- Mites percolate for some time prior to us seeing them, so don't go blaming yourself for spreading them around. They've spread long before we even detect their presence. That's why you treat the whole flock when you see mites on one bird, particularly in the beginning.

- The internet is a blessing but can be exhausting in how much conflicting information is out there. I was in the same boat as you in not knowing what to believe. Time and experience will help greatly, as your truth will be different than anyone else's when it comes to what works.

- That's sweet of you to share your chickens with with your dad I know chickens would cheer me up all kinds of ways if I were bed-ridden.

Thanks, I just can't believe I missed it because we had a mite explosion in 2020, but it was grain mites. They hatched out of some old dog food. Didn't notice them until they had infested the entire bathroom (the dog food was in there, I thought it was a bucket of cat litter, imagine my surprise when I opened it and found old dog food and mites ). There were thousands, climbing the walls, all over the floor, ceiling, all cabinets and doors, the toilet and shower... it was a nightmare. I've been paranoid since then, which is why when we had some hatch out of some cat food last week, I noticed before they got in all the chicken feed and all over the living room.

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm hoping the seven dust and liquid permethrin will give them some relief until the powder permethrin comes in and we get to TSC to get the poultry powder.

He was surprised for sure. He didn't expect to see Banshee, I've been bringing in baby chicks for him to see and then suddenly a full-grown hen. He said, "That's huge!" Banshee isn't even the biggest hen I have.

 

[HiEverybirdy]

So many good questions, and good job sneaking pics! I'll answer based on my experience, always with the disclaimer that I'm not an expert – I'm an obsessive chicken tender but only have 1.5 years of experience under my belt – and what works for us may be different for your flock

- Are the white things on the rooster what you're looking at? Those look different than mites. I'd lean towards lice. Not sure if this is a good article or not, but there are photos that might be helpful. https://citygirlfarming.com/2012/08/22/chicken-lice-arent-nice/

Either way, I do think the treatments are the same with different dosages, meaning you'd be diluting the spray at a different rate. There are good articles on BYC about dosages as well as often some dosing info on the bottle.

- The bugs on your arm aren't mites. I'd say louse for the light one, but again, I don't have direct experience with lice, so take this with a grain of salt. The dark one looks like a biting gnat we get in Tennessee this time of year. Super itchy. I don't believe they're chicken related.

- To my knowledge, the bugs on the floor of your coop are simply creepy crawlies that eat coop junk. We've seen those but not had problems with them. They're kind of a cleaning crew. Northern fowl mites are usually even tinier and darker, and they're often found hiding in the dark under the roost, in the nesting box, or on your chickens.

- Good on you for braving Wild Thang! He may start to love you if you help him feel better ;-)

Dipping was a game-changer for our rooster. I don't think we'd have kicked mites as much without dipping him, but I only did it after exhausting other measures, for the same reasons you're reluctant, which are valid: you don't want him to end up traumatized and flinging pesticide everywhere. Oddly enough, our rooster, who was a freight train of aggression, was the calmest, sweetest bird when dipped. He went into a trance and let me rub the water down to his skin. Then he sunned himself and pranced around for the next few hours like he couldn't be more proud. Unexpected, but he must've felt elated to stop being bitten. He was so big, and no matter how many times I dusted and spritzed him, the mites would hide elsewhere on him, then rebound.

I was glad he was the only bird who needed dipping. I mean, one way chickens dry off is by preening. It's hard to imagine how much poison they ingest after being dusted or spritzed, not to mention after being completely soaked in pesticide, ugh.

- For birds who don't like to be handle, I'd sneak treatments when the birds are on the roost at night because they're easier to access. Some say the chickens will stay asleep while you're dusting/spritzing butts. Mine wake up, but it's still far less tricky than trying to catch the flighty ones during the day. (Of course, if you're dipping, that should be by day unless it's very hot at night. You don't want to chill a chicken.)

- In my experience, it can take a few days for some treatments to work, esp. when the infestation is bad. Many treatments do recommend a second round 10-14 days later to catch subsequent hatch outs.

- The poopy booty on your boy and feather loss on your hen may definitely indicate external parasites.

However, we have one hen who lost feathers on her butt, no mites or lice, and I've read where sometimes a hen just loses butt feathers and won't grow them back until molting because she's using resources to lay. You may want to give higher quality/higher protein feed, particularly during warmer months (when they're eating less) to be sure they're getting all they need. Not only to keep their feathers in good condition but because good nutrition might help their systems fend off parasites.

If you feel like geeking out on poultry nutrition, I just heard this podcast and thought it was great: https://www.breedersacademy.com/ep35-interview-with-jeff-mattocks-about-poultry-nutrition-part-1/

- Our flock has a big, fenced-in/electrified yard. Their dustbath area is a little hill they've terraced into numerous pits. It's just dirt. Nothing added. Interestingly, our rooster had his mite problems when I was separating him 1/3 of each day because of his aggression. Just that much less access to dustbathing seemed to make a big difference.

A lot of people have special recipes for dustbaths, but if you have good dirt on your ground that the other chickens like (maybe not potting soil in case that has fertilizer in it), I'd shovel that ground into a baby pool and give it to him! He'll be so happy to have dirt to fancy himself up in.

Some people add wood ash or DE. Again, I'd never add DE because of the respiratory concerns, and our dirt seems to work wonders on its own. But there are many opinions on dustbaths.

Hope this helps. Maybe someone with lice experience will weigh in, but if I were you, I'd do a bunch of searches on lice to see how people are detecting and dealing with those in case these are that instead of mites.