If she's not eggbound... then what?

[AmyRey]

I've done all I know to do, so help me out here.

I've got an old girl (4-5 years old maybe) white leghorn. When she was laying, she never had any issues. I really only remember maybe one or two double yolkers. My flock had always free ranged during the day 100% until a few months ago when I enclosed a fenced in area and moved them to a new larger, much better coop. They still had plenty of grass, sunshine, bugs, etc and I would let them out each night and let them wander for a few hours before bedtime. I also have always provided them with laying pellets, though not exclusively. They have mostly foraged for probably 90% of their intake.

A couple of months ago, I noticed that she looked fatter on the back end. Like I said, she's old so she hasn't been a regular layer for a while now so not getting any eggs from her (she's my only white egg girl) for a while didn't really spark any concern. She was acting normal, eating normal, pooping normal, etc. Off and on though, she looks like she's in discomfort and for the last few weeks, she's gotten worse and worse.

Virtually every weekend, I perform the egg-unbinding routine... very warm water, massage, olive oil and digital exam but nothing ever happens. I'll dry her off and put her back out with the others a day or two later. She'll look like she's doing maybe a little better (though never an egg) and then by the weekend, she's bad enough again that we do the whole egg-unbinding routine all over again.

I have examined her digitally (much more thoroughly than both of us were comfortable with) and I do not feel an egg or anything that resembles an egg. In fact, I can only seem to examine one "tract" I don't know if this is her digestive tract or her reproductive tract. But everything is very firm and super distended. If there's an egg in there, it's the size of a grapefruit now (which is obviously impossible.) I hope.

This week, she's gotten noticeably worse. She's having a very hard time walking and can no longer jump up on the roost or even up the chicken stairs that lead into the coop. She's still eating, still drinking and (I think) still able to eliminate. She doesn't appear to be in distress yet, but is definitely in an extreme amount of discomfort.

Being egg bound is my guess - all signs point me to that... no eggs for months; swollen, heavy rear; trouble walking; pulsing vent; droopy tail, penguin-y gait (when she could still walk) but if that's the case, she's been egg bound for a couple of months now and that doesn't seem possible. If she's egg bound, shouldn't she be dead by now?

A little while ago we just finished soaking for a couple of hours, fed her a TUMS, gave her lots of water (she ate a bowl of layer pellets) and examined her again - hate to be gross here but I examined as far in as I physically could. Her vent is not prolapsed and looks completely normal, aside from the giant bulge underneath.

Any other ideas? Tumor?

 

[microchick]

I'm curious to hear your nurse friend's opinion of that dosage because I'd be calling doc for a clarification order. Cause the way I am reading that is 'q' means 'every' '3-5d' could mean every 3 to 5 days. Yep I'm a retired nurse and I showed it to my husband, also a retired medical professional and he agreed that it's vague at best and he would never get a pharmacist to fill an RX that he wrote that way.

 

[casportpony]

I'm curious to hear your nurse friend's opinion of that dosage because I'd be calling doc for a clarification order. Cause the way I am reading that is 'q' means 'every' '3-5d' could mean every 3 to 5 days. Yep I'm a retired nurse and I showed it to my husband, also a retired medical professional and he agreed that it's vague at best and he would never get a pharmacist to fill an RX that he wrote that way.

I think you're correct... 3 times a day would be written as TID, I think.

-Kathy

 

[microchick]

Medical terminology, especially abbreviations can be confusing especially when you are already stressed out from dealing with a sick family member or pet. The commonly used ones are TID which is three times daily, QID which is four times a day and QD which is once every day although it was being abandoned in favor of Qday as too many med errors were possible mistaking QD for QID. QHS is at bedtime and QAM which is every morning. Usually a script is written or in the case of dosing animals, the directions appear on the labels of the meds and should tell you dosage, route, time and frequency. If you buy medicine for your birds, like most of us do at the local feed store or on line, you need to familiarize yourself with the terminology so you can treat your beloved birds safely. Once you do congratulations, you are a barnyard or backyard nurse.

For your reference:

http://www.medicinenet.com/list_of_common_medical_abbreviations_and_terminology/views.htm

I graduated from nurses training in 1975 at the advent of the technology boom that ushered in the new era of medicine. We were taught to use our education, our senses and common sense when practicing our art and you have to do the same when dealing with sick or injured animals. Like small children, they cannot tell you where it hurts or how they feel sick. It's a puzzle that you have to sort out and put together.

Frankly, y'all amaze me at what you will attempt in order to save one small feathered life with only the knowledge, experience and advice that you can glean off the Internet and forums like BYC, and I salute each and every one of you.

To the OP, I fear for your feathered friend and hope you can find out what is wrong with her and buy her some more time. There is a saying in medicine that when God puts his hand on a person's right shoulder you have no choice but to move yours from the left.

 

[casportpony]

No real improvement. In fact, she's technically a little worse considering that she won't eat as readily as she was yesterday. Still eating some food though.

She's sleeping a lot (head turned backward not just drooped forward) so if her body is going to recover, it's probably good that she rest now. She's isolated today, too.

It's not even been 12 hours yet since the full dose of Duramycin. I'd say it needs a while longer yet.

Not positive, but I think Duramycin is not very effective in treating E. coli, which is one of the common bacterial infections they get with EYP. How many hours has it been since you gave the Baytril and how much did you give?

Here is a chart I refer to when try to pick an antibiotic:


-Kathy

 

[mirandaleecon]

Have you tried giving her calcium gluconate? I had a few chickens this year that started penguin walking and acting egg bound but while examining them I couldn't find any stuck eggs. I tried all the normal egg bound treatments (bath, steam, oil, etc) but none of them seemed to do much. I gave them calcium gluconate and that seemed to perk them up by the next day. I believe I ordered mine online from Jeffers (for cattle) but it should be available at Tractor Supply...

 

[casportpony]

I recently read a post by @JadeComputerGal (I think) that said Tums was not a good source of calcium. So being the type I am, I googled it and found several links that back that up. If she has an egg, which one would be able to feel by sticking their finger in the vent, I would give calcium gluconate at 50mg per pound orally or subcutaneously, but only once I knew they were properly hydrated.

-Kathy

 

[XxMingirlxX]

Do you have a photo?

 

[Wol1]

It could be egg peritonitis. An egg breaks inside, gets infected, the reproductive tract gets swollen, more eggs pile up behind the first. I've had two golden comets with this. It happened over a few weeks. I also did the egg unbind stuff, and didn't find anything obvious. When I would do that, lots of fluid would come out, but no egg. That relieved the pressure, I guess. The swollen oviduct also presses on the digestive tract, so she was only able to get small amounts of food through. She was passing stuff that looked like curdled egg and lots of liquid. Later, she started passing bright, egg yolk yellow stuff. The vet said that was a sign of liver failure. If your girl was only sporadically laying eggs, then it could take a few months. A tumor also sounds like a possibility. I would suggest that you put her somewhere separate, maybe with a friend to keep her company so that you can get a clear idea of what she's eating and pooping.
A very long thread on egg peritonitis is here, and includes our saga. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...-implant-and-or-spay-egg-yolk-peritonitis/120

 

[AmyRey]

She's still slightly wet from this morning's soaking and her back end sticks out past her vent now, so she's pooping on her on butt, hence why she's so icky.

Again, she's still eating, still drinking and still pooping. But she looks very tired, probably from being handled so much this morning and falls asleep while standing up.

I've got her isolated in the coop and she can walk around a little in it, but not much. And it looks like every few seconds, she sort of strains (like she is about to poop) but then nothing happens. She does still poop though, and it looks normal... not watery.