If you have an established line of birds, is it bad to outcross without good reason?

[Turkeytom25]

Hi guys,
This question is for the experienced breeders out their. I am beginning to start into breeding Plymouth rocks and I am confused about outcrossing. I have been reading up on related topics and I am confused because some people say to start into breeding with totally unrelated lines and others say that outcrossing is the surest way to fail as a breeder. I am of the belief that a line should be kept pure until you start noticing a definite decline in some characteristic at which point you find another line with some of the characteristics your line has always been lacking. This way you postpone the defects which can happen from an unsuccessful outcross and keep the line pure. Is this the correct way to look at outcrossing or am I doing something wrong?

 

[nicalandia]

Hi guys,
This question is for the experienced breeders out their. I am beginning to start into breeding Plymouth rocks and I am confused about outcrossing. I have been reading up on related topics and I am confused because some people say to start into breeding with totally unrelated lines and others say that outcrossing is the surest way to fail as a breeder. I am of the belief that a line should be kept pure until you start noticing a definite decline in some characteristic at which point you find another line with some of the characteristics your line has always been lacking. This way you postpone the defects which can happen from an unsuccessful outcross and keep the line pure. Is this the correct way to look at outcrossing or am I doing something wrong?

You seem to be fine with me..

 

[EggSighted4Life]

The previous poster actually has extensive genetic comprehension according to the posts I've seen made and so I would agree with them and trust their sentiment.

Happy adventures!

 

[Mosey2003]

That is correct. When you breed one line repeatedly, you keep selecting for what you want, and (if you're doing it mindfully) you will narrow down what is being expressed in your line. When you cross two unrelated lines, you're adding back in a lot of what you've worked to whittle down, and things can get messy.

I started out with two different lines because I hadn't been aware that I could get stock from someone else than what I had gotten locally and some other reasons, and it's really not a great way to go if you can help it.

Sometimes, some breeders want/need an outcross. There is much debate about this. Usually, if you can hatch enough chicks per season (over 100 sometimes), you can really push the genes of what you're working with to offer you at least a couple of what you're wanting. Ideally, if you can do this for a few generations, you should be getting more of what you want every year.

I am still learning and growing, myself.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Outcrosses are risky business. Not an all in kind of affair as certain lines wont niche well and that gamble becomes a loss.

The people saying a person should get unrelated lines to start with are not breeders. They are armchair enthusiast that believe close breeding is a bad thing. It's not. Line breeding and clan mating provide enough genetic diversity for decades.

If your birds are lacking in some area someone else with the same line of birds may have a bird with the attribute you need. Shipping adult birds is expensive but you could arrange meets at poultry shows. Sometimes you need to get what you need from another line. Both lines have something lacking and you're trying to get the positive of both lines into one. Or you've got a line that is lacking in hatchability from the get go and in need of new blood. It can work out without a hitch and it can be miserable. Never go all in with an outsourced bird. Side project test mating would be advised.

 

[Turkeytom25]

Thanks for the replies, this really clears things up.

 

[Stipenvlerk]

For what it's worth. I just had a meeting around this topic with some genetic specialists and of course they promote outcrossing because of the risks you take when you inbreed.

However, they talked about some succes stories where a minimum of 3 but better 8 breeders rotate the male.
You have to be in a good understanding with the other breeders because it happened in the past that a roo was culled because of bad results instead of passed on to the other one in the circle. There can be problems