Incubator dividers? Poults playing roller derby!

[HeritageFan]

That hatch rate is lower than it should be. I'll include some troubleshooting guides that might help you figure out what the problem is. This part is not always easy, there are too many different things that could cause it.

Incubation Troubleshooting - Incubation and Embryology - University of Illinois Extension

Trouble Shooting Failures with Egg Incubation | Mississippi State University Extension Service (msstate.edu)

Common Incubation Problems: Causes and Remedies (ucanr.edu)

I don't have any photos to help you but some people cut out egg cartons to hold the eggs pointy side down during hatch. They trim out a lot of the egg carton so they don't block the chick pipping and zipping.

This probably takes up too much room, but some people invert baskets over the eggs to keep the chicks separated from the unhatched eggs. Something like those mesh plastic baskets some fruit can come in or make some out of hardware cloth. This is especially helpful if you have different breeds you want to keep separated and the chicks look similar when they hatch but it could help solve your situation.

This is a great thought....
I could perhaps use that plastic “grid” and instead of making “grids” or “baskets”, just make take the idea from the post below about the jar lids- mix it with this- and make “rings” so I can still check on things from the top- and they can’t roll the others....
My ‘bators can “technically” hold up to 40-42 eggs (in the turner....so, vertically. I couldn’t / wouldn’t want to hatch nearly that many at once in these units). Roughly 20” x 20”.
As they are on rotation, we typically have 10-15 ish moving to the lockdown bator at a time. So.... for the time being / our current (hopeful) hatch rates.... the rings may be an option

@Ridgerunner - thank you so much for the links.
I will check them out before proceeding in any direction.
Atm I have 2 turkeys (that hatched Saturday night in the early am) in the brooder.
They were dry enough to move yesterday mid day.

All of the other eggs were “upset”/ the marks I put on top were no longer on top - no other external pips.
I re set them so the top marks were up again.

All eggs were laid within 2 days of initial set.

No issues in the normal ‘bator w temps (100*) or humidity (~40-43 keeps the air cells / weight loss on track here)

I currently have one turkey who has an external pip on the wrong end; it appears to be significant enough of a pip that I am pretty sure it is able to get actual air, but it is just far enough toward the “bottom” that I can’t really see for sure.
Im hesitant to roll it....since I know they have all been rolled so much.... I’m inclined to leave it at least for now and watch for (slow) progress :/
I know that can be a very long and hard hatch :/ but it’s nice to see another pip.

There are also 3 duck eggs and 2 more turkey eggs that do not appear to be wobbling.
(Started this lockdown round w 8 total eggs. Next rounds will be more eggs....although less turkeys....)

I have not candled them since lockdown.
I have only quickly cracked the ‘bator to grab the poults and empty eggs.

All but 1 of the duck eggs (when candled) had babies actively moving when going into lockdown, and that last one had healthy veining and looked good- it just wasn’t moving....

This is a frustrating adventure, but I look forward to resolving this problem and getting confident enough to help other people in the future :/

 

[Gigachad poultry]

I can’t see anything when I try to follow the link....
maybe because I only accepted necessary cookies but. That’s all I’m willing to do

Ok I think if you just look it up on Google you'll get photos or you can sometimes find already made ones on eBay or Etsy for really cheap.

 

[gimmie birdies]

I use a clean fish stringer string/rope.

 

[HeritageFan]

That hatch rate is lower than it should be. I'll include some troubleshooting guides that might help you figure out what the problem is. This part is not always easy, there are too many different things that could cause it.

Incubation Troubleshooting - Incubation and Embryology - University of Illinois Extension

Trouble Shooting Failures with Egg Incubation | Mississippi State University Extension Service (msstate.edu)

Common Incubation Problems: Causes and Remedies (ucanr.edu)

I don't have any photos to help you but some people cut out egg cartons to hold the eggs pointy side down during hatch. They trim out a lot of the egg carton so they don't block the chick pipping and zipping.

This probably takes up too much room, but some people invert baskets over the eggs to keep the chicks separated from the unhatched eggs. Something like those mesh plastic baskets some fruit can come in or make some out of hardware cloth. This is especially helpful if you have different breeds you want to keep separated and the chicks look similar when they hatch but it could help solve your situation.

This was a very helpful series of articles, I very much appreciate you taking the time to send them my way
After reading them, I feel like the most common denominator may be pre setting temp (I store in the house, pointy end down, but there are times when temps spike above that 60ish ideal for sure/ humidity isn’t low in the PNW but it isn’t 50-60%)
....and/ or (I don’t wash my eggs before setting but I don’t set dirty eggs....)

Do you wash your eggs in water/ peroxide before setting?

There also isn’t a lot of fresh air flow in my ‘bators - esp using the humidikits....
there is only one small vent and the tube for the humidikit goes in that hole.
As soon as one zipps, the humidity tends to spike.... so I have learned to pull the tube out of the hole and set it next to the hole so it can keep things stable without humidity being too high or spiking...

Hmm
My ‘bators are styrofoam.
Maybe I need to add some additional holes that I can open up for more fresh air?
I could cover w tape to maintain proper levels as needed?


What incubator(s) do you use?
Here is what I have

For incubating- the with vertical auto turners
https://incubatorwarehouse.com/hova-bator-genesis-1588-egg-incubator.html

For hatch
https://incubatorwarehouse.com/hova-bator-2370-electrnic-thermostat-hova-bator.html

Both also have a “humidifier”
https://incubatorwarehouse.com/humidikit.html

Both are also monitored with a secondary thermometer and hygrometer...

.....would setting clean but unwashed eggs, or close to but not “perfect” holding conditions allow the babies to develop and be visibly active to the point of lockdown and then fail?
Or is it more likely (in your opinion) that the eggs getting rolled by the poults might be the more likely issue?

The duck and turkey eggs are remarkably similar in size. The turkey eggs are actually slightly smaller, but their shells are much thicker. Everything I’ve read about incubating the duck and turkey eggs is quite consistent about them both requiring the same temps and humidity so.... I don’t - think- that is the issue?

@R2elk
Sorry to drag you into this but, I’d love to know what your ‘bator setup looks like if you have a minute and would be so kind as to reply

 

[HeritageFan]

View attachment 3548199
I use a clean fish stringer string/rope.

I have a few of those that haven’t yet been used. Also have some smaller polyester rope
I like this better than making “cages” for the eggs.... I like them to be able to move and see each other as they hatch!
Thank you for this idea

 

[HeritageFan]

This is a great thought....
I could perhaps use that plastic “grid” and instead of making “grids” or “baskets”, just make take the idea from the post below about the jar lids- mix it with this- and make “rings” so I can still check on things from the top- and they can’t roll the others....
My ‘bators can “technically” hold up to 40-42 eggs (in the turner....so, vertically. I couldn’t / wouldn’t want to hatch nearly that many at once in these units). Roughly 20” x 20”.
As they are on rotation, we typically have 10-15 ish moving to the lockdown bator at a time. So.... for the time being / our current (hopeful) hatch rates.... the rings may be an option

@Ridgerunner - thank you so much for the links.
I will check them out before proceeding in any direction.
Atm I have 2 turkeys (that hatched Saturday night in the early am) in the brooder.
They were dry enough to move yesterday mid day.

All of the other eggs were “upset”/ the marks I put on top were no longer on top - no other external pips.
I re set them so the top marks were up again.

All eggs were laid within 2 days of initial set.

No issues in the normal ‘bator w temps (100*) or humidity (~40-43 keeps the air cells / weight loss on track here)

I currently have one turkey who has an external pip on the wrong end; it appears to be significant enough of a pip that I am pretty sure it is able to get actual air, but it is just far enough toward the “bottom” that I can’t really see for sure.
Im hesitant to roll it....since I know they have all been rolled so much.... I’m inclined to leave it at least for now and watch for (slow) progress :/
I know that can be a very long and hard hatch :/ but it’s nice to see another pip.

There are also 3 duck eggs and 2 more turkey eggs that do not appear to be wobbling.
(Started this lockdown round w 8 total eggs. Next rounds will be more eggs....although less turkeys....)

I have not candled them since lockdown.
I have only quickly cracked the ‘bator to grab the poults and empty eggs.

All but 1 of the duck eggs (when candled) had babies actively moving when going into lockdown, and that last one had healthy veining and looked good- it just wasn’t moving....

This is a frustrating adventure, but I look forward to resolving this problem and getting confident enough to help other people in the future :/

Glad I checked the one that is pipped- it cracked the shell but not the membrane.

I just pulled the tiniest bit of shell away so I could tear the membrane and the beak was immediately gasping for air and moving.

Going to grab my coconut oil now.... better safe than sorry?

 

[Ridgerunner]

I store in the house, pointy end down, but there are times when temps spike above that 60ish ideal for sure/ humidity isn’t low in the PNW but it isn’t 50-60%

All eggs were laid within 2 days of initial set.

I store my eggs in a spare bedroom laying flat in a dresser drawer where they are safe from a dog. They are turned three times a day. Room temperature is in the 70's F. Humidity can be fairly low in the spring. I can store my chicken eggs for a week without a drop off in fertility. I don't think the way you are storing them is your problem.

Do you wash your eggs in water/ peroxide before setting?

No. I don't set dirty eggs and I try to keep the bloom intact.

There also isn’t a lot of fresh air flow in my ‘bators - esp using the humidikits....
there is only one small vent and the tube for the humidikit goes in that hole.
As soon as one zipps, the humidity tends to spike.... so I have learned to pull the tube out of the hole and set it next to the hole so it can keep things stable without humidity being too high or spiking...

I'm not familiar with humidkits. The eggs don't need a lot of fresh air early during incubating but the closer you get to hatch the more fresh oxygen they need. When eggs start hatching a lot of moisture is released in the incubator, I've had humidity jump 20%. I personally don't worry about that.

What incubator(s) do you use?

I use the 1588 for incubating and hatching. It only has the one ventilation port on top, which I always leave open.

would setting clean but unwashed eggs, or close to but not “perfect” holding conditions allow the babies to develop and be visibly active to the point of lockdown and then fail?
Or is it more likely (in your opinion) that the eggs getting rolled by the poults might be the more likely issue?

As long as the eggs don't go "rotten" with bacteria growing inside them the clean versus not clean eggs doesn't matter. That's the concern with dirty eggs, they may let bacteria grow inside them which would kill the embryo. If you are not smelling the rotten egg smell that is not your problem.

I've never been concerned about the first to hatch rolling other eggs. Maybe I should be but I've never seen a problem. My understanding is that the commercial operations lay the eggs flat but I don't know if they contain them. When you have 60,000 eggs in an incubator or hatcher, those chicks can put out a lot or heat after they develop some. It is supposedly easier to blow air on the eggs to cool them if they are laying flat. I don't have enough eggs in my incubator for heat build up to be a problem.

 

[HeritageFan]

Well. Time to start with the egg- cropseys

Only ended up w 2 out of 9 set.

Main incubator runs at 100*, 45% humidity. Vertical auto turner.
Apart from the infrequent infertile egg, I almost never lose anyone in the first weeks. (NOT challenging the universe lol only commenting on the past!!)
Lockdown bator runs at 99.5, ~70+% humidity.

I always clean the lockdown bator before setting the next batch, and keep it closed except to pull dry babies or help if required.

No ducks hatched, “bruised”, or pipped at all, 2 turkeys are doing fine, two others no pip, 1 pipped but was malpositioned. It cracked the shell but not the inner membrane. I carefully pulled back a bit of shell and opened the membrane, coated w coconut oil, and watched it breathing and chewing for about 30 hours.

Came back from work and saw no movement so pulled it out and the poult had passed.
Very odd position but ....idk.... it seems like it -should- have been able to get out?
Veins are almost gone, still was working on the yolk sack sooo
I don’t really think it was -quite- ready :/
Despite everyone being set at the same time and the other two hatched three days ago...
I’m feeling like I should have perhaps tried to help more sooner, but I could still see very red veins in the membrane when I pulled the original pieces away so was hesitant to open further...

All of our flocks are healthy, fed a consistent high quality appropriate feed, get occasional free range time when not in their runs, we clean daily, breeding groups are separated, and everyone is about a year old....

Eggs are brought in daily, only clean and unwashed eggs are set, and I don’t typically hold eggs for more than 5 days- often just 2-3 days, placed in an egg carton, pointy end down, on the counter.

I wear gloves when I candle- usually about once a week to check for viability unless there is a reason to check more often.

I’m still really scratching my head on this.
Everything is consistent....
I still think I may try the mesh “rings” to contain the turkeys post hatch....
The ducklings are pretty chill; they may bump and egg here and there but the turkeys will ram into them and try climbing over them even while they are still damp

If anyone else has any thoughts- either re the incubation issues, or, the malpositioned poult and if there was anything else I could have done- please let me know.

 

[HeritageFan]

Update:
One poult appears to have passed likely right around transfer time.
I elected to not open the membrane as there was sufficient fluid for the baby to “move” when I “wiggled” the egg after opening the air cell, and.
Well. I could tell that I didn’t want to open that. I could see feet, so it was also malpositioned.
The other looked perfectly formed, correctly positioned, and never internally pipped. No horrible smell.
It was, however, certainly no longer alive (I went very slow)
Looks like it probably would have had another day or so to go before it passed, based on yolk sac absorption and shrinking veins
I know they are not incorrectly set in the ‘bator, ....as you can see the pencil marks on the egg where the air pocket is (at the fat end)

Candling before opening showed that the ducklings may just need some more time. They started peeping when I pulled them to candle, so I put them back in the bator quickly

I mark my eggs with their “collection” date, and all of these guys were collected within 2 days.

Usually my ducklings and poults pop out on the same day....

The plot thickens