Iowa Blues - Breed thread and discussion

[IowaBlueCurt]

Going back to the autosomal red/gold leakage discussion.......

I think we definately have both in action due to the introduction of black leghorn to produce the birchen color pattern. There is always so much autosomal red and gold leakage that hides under extended black.

It'll take a lot of culling................

 

[WVDan44]

Going back to the autosomal red/gold leakage discussion.......

I think we definately have both in action due to the introduction of black leghorn to produce the birchen color pattern. There is always so much autosomal red and gold leakage that hides under extended black.

It'll take a lot of culling................

On top of all that, Co and Db are both extenders of pheomelanin with variable results which really destablizes matters,so you never know what you will get; sort of like the prize in a box of crackerjacks. They effect not only Pg but also s+ in that they are responsible for ginger red showing up in places where it shouldn't. Both are autosomal dominant. It'll take a lot of culling...and a lot of outcrossing IMHO.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

Well, the good news is that Db and Co are only found in the Sandhill line birds (plus a few in Kari's flock that are distantly related to the Sandhill line). Also, pure Sandhill birds are devoid of autosomal red or gold leakage.

Bad news, they make up the smallest proportion of the breed. And, when we cross the Sandhill line to the Ideal line, we will be introducing the autosomal red / gold leakage into an already clean line.............

Back to good news....Kari has done a great job of hatching large numbers and culling hard against any red expression!

 

[snowpetals907]

I've noticed that my pullet has developed a few gold feathers. They just appeared the last couple of days. I don't want to cull her but I also don't want to breed her in the future if this is undesirable.

 

[WVDan44]

I've noticed that my pullet has developed a few gold feathers. They just appeared the last couple of days. I don't want to cull her but I also don't want to breed her in the future if this is undesirable.

I wouldn't tell you not to breed her if she is all you have, but I wouldn't encourage you to breed her either if you have grave concerns about the outcome. I would tell you to just enjoy her and let her be a happy little chick for a while before you make any decisions. One more pet in the pen won't hurt all that much!

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

Snowpetal- If she does develop some gold, I would encourage you to breed her to a Silver Penciled Rock rooster. Select for silver penciled birds that are marked according to the standard that is being written up and select for willow legs as as dark of eyes as possible. You could then take these F1 babies and breed them to some Silver Iowa Blues when you are able to obtain some. This would give you a nice "base" flock to work with that is devoid of gold leakage/autosomal red.

Just a thought.

Kari has a few of these F1 crosses, as do I from eggs I got from her. from what I'm seeing in my birds as well as Kari's, I'm thinking these F1 birds will make great assets to our breeding programs. Don't be afraid to add some outside blood to improve the birds. The main thing to remember is to select the offspring that resemble the standard the closest. And then to continue breeding for that standard.

Kari may have more to say on this subject as she has more experience on this........

 

[karimw]

Quote:
We are all going to see this. Other breeders have advised me that we will need to deal with this for a while. When you get enough chicks to select against it, then you can start keeping only the pure. I would not recommend outcrossing to anything until you raise a few Iowa Blues and see what you have. In hindsight I was probably TOO focused on color and culled birds that had superior size and shape. The old phrase "build the barn before you paint it" is good advice.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

I have to say I think I would go with Kari's advice over what I just gave you Snowpetal. I think there is more sense in what she just shared.

 

[WVDan44]

We are all going to see this. Other breeders have advised me that we will need to deal with this for a while. When you get enough chicks to select against it, then you can start keeping only the pure. I would not recommend outcrossing to anything until you raise a few Iowa Blues and see what you have. In hindsight I was probably TOO focused on color and culled birds that had superior size and shape. The old phrase "build the barn before you paint it" is good advice.

Okay you two (Curt, Kari), I'm a buildin' the barn as fast as I can, but I need more lumber! LOL And Kari, I've actually been known to paint my lumber before building my barn!

I'm looking at my five thugs here at four weeks old today. No pics today, because you all know how they look at this age. Big changes in just a week. The SP is feathering out wonderfully as its white head and neck feathers begin to emerge, and those funny "hatchet" shaped tails are a hoot. I cannot yet determine gender, either I have 3 and 2 or 2 and 3. First thought SP was a roo, good stout legs, largest of the brood, bossy, but the comb is throwing me. If I go by comb, I'm leaning toward 3 hens but if I go by size and stoutness of leg, I'm thinking 2 hens. I'm hoping for an SP roo, but with the other 4 being birchen, I am just happy to have a silver. I need more building material y'all ! That's a hint Kari, Curt, Connie, and all you Iowans. Have a super day!

 

[Hurley]

My opinion on penciled vs. barred for "THE" standard - Given that in the accounts barring was not described, but repeated mention of fine pencilings as well as the appearance of what photographs we have, I believe the penciled variety should be what we go for. I don't think fully barred is desirable, but a soft gray thinly-penciled appearance to the hens, breaking up into stippling is what I would like to breed towards. I would not disqualify barring appearing, but it should not be the predominant pattern (like campines), the penciled breast should be universally present.

Obviously we should eliminate autosomal red and gold, but I think there is room to play on the pattern with selection and refinement in breeding lines. I also agree that we need to build the barn first. These birds need more size and vigor, I would cull for small/thin/unthrifty over poor color.