Iowa Blues - Breed thread and discussion

[mrheinz77]

This is the current cockerel in my pen. I want to see if I get any SP from him. The other one only produced Birchen. I did notice some brown in the lacing on his wings but you need to look really close to see it.

By the way Kari, 10 of the 12 eggs I got from you at the show are developing.

 

[karimw]

This is the current cockerel in my pen. I want to see if I get any SP from him. The other one only produced Birchen. I did notice some brown in the lacing on his wings but you need to look really close to see it.

By the way Kari, 10 of the 12 eggs I got from you at the show are developing.

Good to hear! Eric said he has 9 or 10 as well. The ones marked "B" or "SP" are from the young SP pen. Do you have any of those developing?

 

[WVDan44]

I like him! He has a great set to his tail and he looks like he has some substance to him for such a young bird.

He does have substance; not as "lank and lean" as some I've seen. The bits of brown in the saddle area may diminish in time, but he's what I have to work with and thanks to you, I'd say I'm off to a decent start! I was a bit iffy on the breed at first, but they have really grown on me. I'm about to set 15 eggs under a broody - I would have gone with a bator, but I must be away so much in the next four weeks I opted for the broody...a black australorp!

 

[WVDan44]

This is the current cockerel in my pen. I want to see if I get any SP from him. The other one only produced Birchen. I did notice some brown in the lacing on his wings but you need to look really close to see

By the way Kari, 10 of the 12 eggs I got from you at the show are developing.

Mr. Heinz, that's a fine looking roo which also shows substance. Mine has a bit of brown also, but I recall a lot of talk re: genetics and the fact that there is some of that to be worked out of the breed. Good luck with your hatch.

 

[WVDan44]

No appolgies needed Dan! We've all got much to learn yet, and each of us plays a part in the history of this breed!

Dan- I LOVE that you named your cockerel Ames!! If you aren't physically here in Iowa, you are in spirit! hahaha He's looking like a good fella. When you get a chance, send us some pics of the ladies!

Yeah Curt, well I thought it was a better name than Cedar Rapids or Council Bluffs

I will send photos of the girls soon.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

Yeah Curt, well I thought it was a better name than Cedar Rapids or Council Bluffs

I will send photos of the girls soon.

HILARIOUS!!!

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

I have an interesting tidbit of information.............

Kari posted some chicks very early in the year of three pheasant looking chicks. As they reached adulthood, it became clear that they were based on the e+ (wild type) locus and developed into a silver duckwing type of bird, although much lighter in overall color. One particular characteristic was the reddish/salmon colored breast on the pullets. Very beautiful I must add. And have become a favorite of my wife!
Anyway, I recieved a pullet from Sandhill this year that also was a pheasant colored chick. As this pullet developed she looked exactly like Kari's pullets with only one difference. She lacked the red breast like Kari's birds. Well, I noticed yesterday that as her new feathers have begun to come in, she has some salmon markings on both sides of her breast..........

So, it would seem that the red in the breast of our pheasant colored chicks would be the right coloration............also, I vaguely remember one of our accounts saying that some of the hens had a brownish coloration on them, but that it didn't happen very often. I think it was Phil Roe, but don't quote me on that............

Anyway, it's been exciting to see this other coloration come about and hopefully our breeders will be just as excited to maintain this diversity in their flocks as Kari, my wife, and I are. They are stunning to look at. The males on the other hand, are very similar to the Silver Penciled cockbirds at adulthood.

To anyone who has some of these birds in their flocks or hatch out some in future generations, do not cull these out! They existed in the original flocks, and are recessive to both the Silver Penciled and Birchen patterns. You can use them in your flock without destroying the flock's integrity.

Also, I've got two young cockerels from Sandhill and a young chick out of Kari's stock that were hatched as a chocolate/slatey color. These will be interesting to follow through on as they existed in the original flocks but have been almost nonexistant for decades......

We as a club have had many challenges to overcome (which I might add we've done an amazing job as a club). One particular challenge that we will be faced with in the upcoming years is this-

Our breed was created with much diversity in coloration. Chicks were hatched out in chocolate, black with brown markings, brown mottled, pheasant looking, smokey gray, smokey blue, smokey black, smokey brown, to name a few. Each of these chick down colors carry different gene combinations and many are located on different e locuses. What this means is that we've got out work cut out for us. Not only do we have to have a standardization process to aid in getting the breed into the standard of perfection, but it would be foolish for us to outcast all the other colorations in the process. We need to maintain and preserve EACH of the Iowa Blue's unique colorations, and this means that in order to do so, we've got to figure out genetically what's going on. Then we have to figure out how to maintain the diversity within our flocks, without letting the recessive traits be lost to the dominant ones.........This also means we have to do an excellent job of educating breeders and prospective breeders on the breed's diversity and how to maintain that diversity.

It's not surprising that the breed has become so close to extintion multiple times, there is a lot of genetic information one has to understand and then share in a mass form in order to keep all the breeders on one page and one thought in understanding.....This is hard enough when only one coloration is in question, but multiple colorations???? And then add to it multiple controversies........phew. We've come a long way indeed!! Way to go everyone! And keep up the good work!!!

 

[karimw]

There is a lot of diversity in the breed and that makes it difficult to breed to a standard. I'll play devil's advocate here and say it isn't what we want for the APA. To be a standard bred bird they need to be pretty consistent and predictable. Chicks produced must match the standard at least 50% of the time to comply with the requirement. The breeder affidavits required for consideration must state that your birds will breed true.

I know the foundation stock produced many color variations and that's OK for a hatchery bird. I doubt very much the old hatchery producers paid strict attention to the number of comb points, the color of the shanks and eyes, or quality of penciling. Now WE have to pay attention to that or we won't succeed with the APA. We have to eliminate the off color chicks from our Birchen and SP lines to some degree or we can't say they are bred to the standard. My advice is to select your breeders based on the Standard. Of course you can use the off color chicks in your program, but I would do so judiciously and mark them young so you know which ones they are. It is difficult to tell them apart when they get older!

 

[mrheinz77]

Mr. Heinz, that's a fine looking roo which also shows substance. Mine has a bit of brown also, but I recall a lot of talk re: genetics and the fact that there is some of that to be worked out of the breed. Good luck with your hatch.

This cockerel is the most silver color that I have hatched and kept. I was disappointed when I saw the flecks of brown, though. His dad did not have this. The other cockerel that throws only Birchens is much larger than this guy. His problem is he has the gold cast to his silver. I'll see what this year's crop produces.

 

[mrheinz77]

Good to hear! Eric said he has 9 or 10 as well. The ones marked "B" or "SP" are from the young SP pen. Do you have any of those developing?

I had one SP and 2 B eggs. One of the B eggs is developing.

There is a lot of diversity in the breed and that makes it difficult to breed to a standard. I'll play devil's advocate here and say it isn't what we want for the APA. To be a standard bred bird they need to be pretty consistent and predictable. Chicks produced must match the standard at least 50% of the time to comply with the requirement. The breeder affidavits required for consideration must state that your birds will breed true.

I know the foundation stock produced many color variations and that's OK for a hatchery bird. I doubt very much the old hatchery producers paid strict attention to the number of comb points, the color of the shanks and eyes, or quality of penciling. Now WE have to pay attention to that or we won't succeed with the APA. We have to eliminate the off color chicks from our Birchen and SP lines to some degree or we can't say they are bred to the standard. My advice is to select your breeders based on the Standard. Of course you can use the off color chicks in your program, but I would do so judiciously and mark them young so you know which ones they are. It is difficult to tell them apart when they get older!

My thought is that we focus on the Silver Pencil and Birchen varieties but not to throw the baby out with the bath water. For the APA we need to focus on the two but there shouldn't be a problem with anybody working on the side projects. There are unrecognized color varieties in other breeds (ie BLRW, Lavender Orpington/Ameraucanas, ...)The colors that need to be focused on though should be the colors we are working on the Standards for. This is just my opinion. It does not represent the opinion of the other officers of the IBCC unless they state otherwise.