Jungle Fowl

[RobG7aChattTN]

I've read on-line that most people who have stocked straight bluegill and Georgia Giants prefer the regular bluegill and the second generation of Georgia Giants are all over the map.

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

I've also heard that the second generation of Georgia Giants is all over the map.

 

[centrarchid]

I've read on-line that most people who have stocked straight bluegill and Georgia Giants prefer the regular bluegill and the second generation of Georgia Giants are all over the map.

I agree on both points. The Georgia Giant hybrid will pose the same challenges posed by crossing Green Jungle Fowl with a domestic chicken and trying to breed from the hybrids. Variation to the extreme. While still in college I crossed Northern Largemeouth Bass with Spotted Bass. Cross would go only one way I assume do to behavioral barriers. Hybrids would attempt to breed among themselves although viability was very low and cretinism was obvious in a large minority of those that did survive. Crossing the same F1's back to either parental species or even Smallmouth Bass gave much better survival and much less cretinism. The Largemouth / Spotted Bass backcrosses were something that could have been worked with to create a population that was hybrid (introgressed), viable, and fertile. It allowed dragging some of the genome of one species into another. Problem is that not all the genes were dragged and some of that may not be due to chance alone. Some alleles from one species simply may not mix well with gene complexes from another species. Hopefully that is not the case with the cross intended with the Green Jungle Fowl where desired phenotype may be strongly selected against before the breeder has a hand in the selection process. I would create more than one single backcrossed line and select for viability / fertility in each. After a couple generations where you have apparent stability in fertility, you cross the two lines. It is likely you will see a second dip in viability / fertility but you also be increasing odds you can restore the allele complex that you want from the Green Jungle Fowl that might have been lost by chance on one backcrossing of another. I you do not have the complexes, a lot of the desired traits will not be manifested.

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

The advantage with using fish is the external ferilization (assuming that you can do it with sunfish the way they do it with trout) and the huge number of eggs produced by each fish. With plants the advantage is you can use chemicals and radiation to create interesting mutations. Too bad you can't do that with animals.

 

[centrarchid]

Trout are a cake walk compared to sunfish although sunfish much more fecund. You can do AI with the bird crosses although restraining the Green Jungle Fowl cock will be very stressful on him. Stress can cut down on quantity and quality of spew.

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

Yeah...I thought about that. The biggest obstacle with the Junglefowl is their flighty wildness. If you've ever seen the AI videos on YouTube with Turkeys it's basically and assembly line process.

 

[orientphoenix]

can you breed a green jungle fowl rooster to more than one hen or will he hurt the other hen.

 

[JimArcher]

I think you could try more than one hen, but I would not introduce them at different times. Put the hens with him at the same time. Do not use older hens as they would be more aggressive than young hens or pullets. The best would be hens that have not been with another rooster, but want to mate and would readily squat for the rooster. Would be good if the hens were acquainted with each other, otherwise you could get the hens attacking each other over dominance as well as dealing with the rooster. Young hens with a young rooster. Older hens will often refuse to mate with a young guy, especially if they have been with an older, very dominant rooster. Young ready hens are the best choice in any situation.
I once introduced a beautiful part-bantam rooster into a small flock of older laying hens. He was coloured like a RJF, but was of medium size, larger than a RJF. The hens all challenged him and he had to really assert himself. He was successful. Unfortunately he developed a total hatred for one hen and she had to sleep up in the barn, while he stayed with the other hens down in the chickens' quarters. He never allowed her to rejoin the flock.
Always put the hens into the cock's pen. Try putting the hens into his pen in a cage so that they can become acquainted thru the wire first. Watch them and you will see when they are ready to be together. A hen that is ready to lay will often squat for the rooster, even if he is outside her cage. Release the hens to him one at a time so that they cannot gang up on him. Give him time to establish his dominance with the hen - should not take long - and then release the second hen. Shouldn't take longer than a few minutes, especially if the hens have been caged in his pen where he could interact with them before they were released.

Good luck.

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

Check out this video starting around 6:30. I don't understand the language but I think they are presenting hens to a Green Junglefowl rooster for him to mate with to create the Ayam Bekisar hybrid. If this method worked it sure would simplify breeding efforts. You wouldn't have to worry about any hens accepting the rooster. You could try any number of hens and you would avoid the stress of artificial insemination. Earlier in the video you can see a hen housed in a cage next to this rooster and that might be to keep him "in the mood" to mate.

 

[JimArcher]

Thanks for the video reference. I had already watched one where they inserted several hens into the rooster's cage one after another. Interesting. Reminds me of the Taiwanese method of producing "mule ducks".
I will attach part of an article from Feathersite. It is quite detailed on the care and feeding of Green Junglefowl. This particular piece caught my eye: "The subadult junglefowl have special problems associated with their dietary requirements and growth stages. Too much crude protein will curl the toes and legs." I lived in Laos for many years and a friend of mine is a fighting cock fancier. These roosters are the Indian Game or Thai Game type. He told me that the young birds would have leg problems if you fed them on commercial chick starter and grower. He fed them a diet rich in broken rice. Not a lot of protein. I secretly scoffed at this (a foreigner always knows better) until I acquired a couple of young game chicks. We fed them the same as the bantams and others and sure enough, when they were getting pretty big, one of them got very weak in the legs and spent a lot of time sitting down. He could walk, but very unsteadily. We fed him a less rich diet - more paddy rice and broken rice, and he got over the leg weakness after a few months. He was the larger of the young roosters when the leg weakness occurred. He was also the purer-looking gamecock.
I have worked in the US for a large Broiler Breeder and all the breeders had problems with their male lines . The male lines had leg problems. What was the main genetic input into their male lines...? The Thai or Indian Game. The solution was to breed for better legs and to restrict their diet during the growing period. I don't know what the diet composition was as I only managed the farm and the feed was sent to us. I imagine the formulas could be located from feed companies.
I will look for a good photo of the Thai Game cocks. The good ones have a single throat lappet like a Green Junglefowl, tight feathering like the GJF, long legs, pea combs, etc.. It is a strong type. Crossing to a regular local hen will still result in young that look strongly gamecock. Strong linkage among their genes, which appear to be generally dominant. I have always felt that these gamecocks must have a different origin than the RJF-descended birds. Just too different and a strong heredity unit.
I think there is a very good chance that these Thai Game chickens are carrying a lot of Green Junglefowl genes. I would use these hens with a Green Junglefowl cock to see if there would be more chance of fertility in the F1 hens and in the general hybrid stock.
I think it might provide an advantage if you used these hens with a GJF cock.
Worth a try.
I can't figure out how to attach photos or documents, but if you go to: Google - 'Thai Game Chickens photos' - you will find lots of pictures - most of which are copyrighted.