Keeping Chickens Free Range

[OrganicFarmWife]

Leghorns are quick. I do not know much more about them, mine are still young. They lay very well.

ok, do they seem to be alert to predators?

You'll get that on almost any question you ask.

I Guess so!

Not really, but they are still at the young and stupid stage...so it is hard to say. If you want alert I stand by my original statement, you want to look at EEs. You do not need a full flick of them, two would be enough to alert the rest of the flock (don't get just one, they like a buddy that is as skittish as they are)

 

[Mccluckers]

9@

...

Not really, but they are still at the young and stupid stage...so it is hard to say. If you want alert I stand by my original statement, you want to look at EEs. You do not need a full flick of them, two would be enough to alert the rest of the flock (don't get just one, they like a buddy that is as skittish as they are)[/quote/]

Ok, thanks for the advice

 

[ShrekDawg]

Animals pay the price for neglectful or uncaring owners. That includes dogs that run,

A dog that does not stay home is nothing  more than a predator.  I try to scare a dog off the first time.  It could be an accident, it slipped its collar/kennel or a hunting dog that got lost.    2nd time is not an accident.   I would then invoke the three S's.


A power augur is fast and works well to dispose of the evidence.

I am not judging people that cannot kill a dog. I understand it. I love dogs.  I grew up on farm, way back when, All the farmers said the same thing back then. A dog that chases and runs is worthless.   When I was a kid some dogs came and chased and killed a few sheep. Our dog joined in the fun of sheep chasing, He was the first dog to die for the crime.

My Dad knew two of the other dogs owners. Farmers also. He called them, (party Line so everyone knew I am sure)  they took care of their dogs when they got home.  A dog that starts chasing and killing livestock (chickens are livestock) are very hard to break from it.   And back to my first rule, dog that runs is worthless.

See thats similar to what I'd probably do except that I'm a bit of a baby and I'd probably give the dog 3 chances before even thinking of shooting it and even then I'd probably just take it to shelter or tie it to their fence or something.

But yeah, I love dogs too which is why I don't think I'd be able to shoot one.

I can understand that attitude though and with working dogs and livestock I suppose it's probably different. The livestock are probably money too and you're right that its hard or impossible to break a dog of that and it's probably easier to just get a new dog. I think that chasing is maybe a bit easier to break, for instance mine thinks running laps around the pen is grand fun but he's making progress and doesn't do it now unless I'm not out there, but the packing you described and plus tasting the blood is probably a whole different game. That almost sounds like packing up and hunting instead of thinking of it as a game. I can definitely see how that's a serious offence especially out there where it's your life. Around here there really aren't many working dogs, they're mostly pets, so that probably changes my attitude a bit too.

You're right though that chasing and running is no good especially in that situation. My dog used to get loose a lot but then we started tying him up, just a long rope tied to a tree or the deck, so he can still walk around a lot of the yard but he can't run off. Then he was so good after about a year my dad decided to try letting him off the rope again. Well guess what happened again? So now he is permanently tied up when he goes outside. Has been for the last year or so. Also got the rope shortened because it used to be obnoxiously long and go into the woods and he'd get tangled. No more. He has gotten better behaved though but he's part Great Pyrenees so he wants to roam. Of course that behavior probably isn't good but we figured out a way to keep him contained. If I had more time or this wasn't working or if I had a full Pyr or LGD with more land I'd probably take the time to train him and teach him the boundaries but this is working and he shouldn't really be off leash anyways. He still sometimes takes off when someonw leaves the door wide open and encourages him out (usually during fights) but that's rare and not really his fault.

I have other neighbors who went above and beyond to make sure that their dogs learned that my chickens are off limits and those dogs have actually come to my house to warn me of an intruder when other careless owners let their dog out to "go find himself some entertainment", which is exactly what they said to me when I tracked them down.  They did apologize and made sure to give their dog a refresher to the existing underground fencing that he was already trained to. I have not seen any of them since.

I am happy to work with people who are willing to do the same.  It's those who don't care or worse, find it entertaining that are so infuriating. I admittedly had hoped that they wouldn't bother to get their puppy back.  She deserves a better life with people who actually care. 

Wow those neighbors sound great! Except the puppy one. Though maybe they meant entertainment in the yard and thought she wouldn't break the electric fence? But either way, that is terrible and they should have been watching her. I mean, first of all who lets a dog out and doesn't watch it? That's asking for trouble. And second, who lets a dog out to find their own entertainment? That's such a lazy way to "own" a dog. In quotes cause do you even own it if you don't care about it? Like jeez, buy her some toys and play with her or walk her.. wow :/

I agree though, people that don't care or find it funny are the worst. I've heard a few stories from people about dogs near them that just run loose. One, in a neighborhood even, there's chihuahuas I think they are among other loose dogs that the people just let loose in the neighborhood. They're also aggressive and attack when they try to bike with their own dog, who has reactivity issues and was doing well until the loose dogs. With someone else there were these loose dogs that just roamed the streets. One of them got hit and killed by a car and the owners didn't even care. And then also, I forget if this is the same neighborhood but some of the loose dogs also dug into this person's yard and almost got into a fight. They have 2 pit bulls (the American Pit Bull Terriers not the mixes) on chain spots outside (sounds bad but they have a lot of room and this person is actually a good owner and takes them off the spot to work with them and hike and stuff all the time, they would destroy the house) and anyway, one is really dog aggressiveand one is just a bit reactive, common for the breed, and so they flipped out when the dogs dug in, and one came very close to being bit. Then there was this adorable little puppy who lived next door and she was one of the dogs who kept digging in, along with another. She was innocent and just wanted to play. They actually got kinda attached aha the neighbor's yard had all this junk in it she coulda gotten hurt on. They just kept her outside all the time and didn't even know when she was missing. And sometimes she would go for days. They keot taking her home and tying her to the front porch with notes. They didn't care. One time she had somehow gotten injured and they left her with a note to take their dog to the vet. After a few days or I think even a week when they still didn't take the dog to the vet and the wound was getting gross, they finally too the dog to the vet themselves. I think she had gotten hit by a car and broken a leg. They had her about a week and took her back. They didn't even know she was missing. And I'm pretty sure they said they didn't want to pay for the vet and/or that they could keep her. I forget if they gave her back to these people or took her to the vet or shelter or somewhere safer or if she perhaps died of her wounds. I'd really like to know, she was adorable. They had posted a few pictures. I feel like this person cared more than the owner did. There was another person who a black Lab would always follow them and they said they just let him roam.. and I heard of this other thing where these people had a pit bull and it died and they just got another one. They kept it in the yard and didn't even feed it I don't think. I can never understand how people treat animals like this.

She definitely deserves a better home

On that I bet we all agree.

Yupppp.

I can PROMISE you- when you get a stray or some other predator tearing your babies to pieces and you hear them scream- your mindset will change. It becomes very clear where your priorities are.

And- if you are not willing to protect them free ranging, please, please rethink free ranging. If you are in the country and want to have farm animals, please rethink it entirely. I'd shoot a predator going after my cats/dogs, too. Had a stray pit bull nearly kill one of my other dogs. It took a bullet whizzing by his head to stop so we could get my dog away. Swear to the big man in the sky, that pit was trying to chew the testicles off the other dog.

I believe that when we commit to having an animal that is dependant on us in some way, that it us our duty to protect them from harm the best we can. And out in the country where I live, that includes lead. {I have kids to protect, too.}

I can understand your points and what you're saying and you're right, maybe if something was going after my birds my attitude would change but I don't know.

I do know though and want to clarify that I never said I wouldn't protect my animals free ranging, just that shooting wouldn't be my first line of defense. I would only shoot if necessary and even then I'd probably hesitate over shooting a dog. Which is maybe what you meant. But I'd scare it off first or throw something at it. If I had to though I'm sure I probably would shoot it but only if it actually had a bird or child in its mouth or was too far away to chase. IMO there's other ways to protect without shooting. But if it was absolutely necessary I might be able to. Or I'd have somebody else shoot it. Doesn't necessarily have to be me.

I also don't live in the country, at least not yet , so there's no need for shooting anyway. Even if I wanted to, I'm not sure it'd be allowed. We live in a town and we're actually in a townhome/condominium neighborhood but our house and the street behind us aren't part of it and were here before it. We're set back in the woods on almost 3 acres and connected to more but there aren't that many predators. Mostly hawks but we have coyotes, foxes, skunks, etc. But I haven't seen a fox in a long time and the coyotes are making a comeback but plenty of rabbits, squirrels, deer, turkeys, etc. I've been letting them out about 2 hours before they go to bed but I want to start letting them out during the day again, just don't wanna watch the whole day. We also have a large dog that I think scares a lot of the predators away. He doesn't go out with them because sometimes he chases but his barking and pee/smell I think does it.

Eventually I want to move to Idaho or some other similar country and yes, then I'm sure I may eventually need to shoot but I don't want to do it first.

Surprisingly, not a single hunting dog out here has gone after my birds. Can't tell you how many we've collected and called on. There has been a single hunting dog without a collar out here. Normally, they have radio collars with a number to call. On the rare chance it doesn't have the radio collar, they have always {except for that one, that went back home, we think} had a collar with a number to call. Folks out here are serious about their hunting dogs.

Once we got that pit off my other dog {which we later took to the shelter because it was 'dumped in the country' and killed one of my cats and then became relentless with the others,} it followed my truck a mile down the road, where I stopped at the hunting club and the guys there kept it so I could leave. I think one of the guys there took it home. Super friendly with people- just not other animals.

Glad the dog hopefully found a good home though sorry it tore into your dog

Yes this is very true. Stray dogs, especially packs of stray dogs will not hesitate to kill you or your children. Unlike a coyote, they have no fear of humans.
My father had that happen to him once as a child (though it can still happen, we have a couple wild packs of dogs ranging to the south of us). A pack of wild dogs came into their yard, they were after the chickens, but they were going to kill whatever they could. My dad and his brothers were out there at the time and their dog fought the pack until the boys could make it safely to the house. They would have killed everything, but my father had a gun and was old enough to know how to use it. He shot one of the dogs, the rest ran away. The dog turned out to be a neighbors dog, and the neighbors were very unhappy with my dad for shooting theit precious baby, never mind what the dog was up to.
Dogs are great, I love my dog and feel safer with her here. But if my dog were to ever pack and start killing, I would blame no one for shooting her.

Wow that's really scary!

See, in that case I may be more willing to shoot it but not if it's just in the yard or by itself or whatever.

Packing dogs are definitely dangerous though but at the same time I feel like there may be a difference between packing dogs, strays, and ferals? Maybe not but to me the dogs described above packing and going after kids and all that seem more feral and have been roaming around a while rather than just a stray someone dumped and maybe friendly. Thats what i thought of when thinking of strays, packs of them or going after kids i could shoot more easily I'm sure. Of course, when one comes into the yard you have no way of knowing if its a lost pet, stray, feral, whatever, and the dumped stray will probably eventually join that feral pack but still. I wouldn't shoot one for just walking in the yard, it'd have to be going after an animal or kids, and even then I'd probably try to scare it off first and throw things at it, hit it, etc. Maybe shoot near it but not at it. I know that's a gun use too but when I was saying I probably couldn't shoot it I meant shooting to kill.

 

[OrganicFarmWife]

All dogs have the potential to pack, and any pack can be dangerous. But you're right not every dog is dangerous, most are a danger to your chickens, but most are not a danger to you.
It is ok that you hesitate to use a gun on a dog, really it is, many feel as you do. Just remember that not all dogs are the loveable furballs your puppy is, and some dogs become different creatures away from their own human families.

 

[ShrekDawg]

All dogs have the potential to pack, and any pack can be dangerous. But you're right not every dog is dangerous, most are a danger to your chickens, but most are not a danger to you.
It is ok that you hesitate to use a gun on a dog, really it is, many feel as you do. Just remember that not all dogs are the loveable furballs your puppy is, and some dogs become different creatures away from their own human families.

That's very true, fortunately we don't have packs of dogs here but it sounds scary. Even if they did pack most of the dogs here are small dogs, shih tzus and terriers and such, with a couple bigger mixes or Labs, so it wouldn't be as dangerous. But yeah, i think not knowing whether a dog is friendly to people or not makes it harder to shoot it for me at least.

Thank you and yeah, that is very true. I guess I'm just a little bit naive and think of all dogs as, or at least HOPE the dog is, friendly goof balls when I know that in reality you're right that that might not always be the case :/

 

[OrganicFarmWife]

Lol yeah the smaller dogs are not much of a threat, but dog packs can happen anywhere. Anywhere with several bored dogs and freedom to run. And the dog that attacked my father and his brothers was just a lab. The larger dogs can be more dangerous, but a medium dog can hurt you, especially in a pack.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Yeah, that makes sense. And really? Wow that's scary but i guess in a pack they get influenced

 

[duluthralphie]

I have seen some pretty small dogs in packs chasing deer through the woods and fields. I would not say a dog is not a danger to your birds or animals just because it is small or cute.

 

[ShrekDawg]

I have seen some pretty small dogs in packs chasing deer through the woods and fields.  I would not say a dog is not a danger to your birds or animals just because it is small or cute.

Wow that must have been a sight to see!

but in all seriousness, yeah, you are right, I am sure they can and do still pose a danger to animals but I more meant the attacking people bit. Sure they could do that too but not as likely and easily kicked off. Although it may be more likely, I find smaller dogs tend to bite more and for no reason while bigger dogs are usually more chill. But both can be dangerous and certain breeds I'm sure are more likely to pack up

 

[ChickenChaser9]

Yeah, that makes sense. And really? Wow that's scary but i guess in a pack they get influenced

Influenced is a poor way to describe how dogs behave normally without humans to guide them. The only reason some breeds of canine stopped hunting in packs like wolves is because as pragmatists it is easier to help us humans and get fed than to hunt for ones own food. Make no mistake, dogs are the #1 cause of backyard chicken fatalities. I isn't a tight race, dog attacks are ahead by far as the most likely reason for a hen be found dead. It is always sad. For the bird has no defense except YOU the human. As humans we tend not to see dogs as threats. Then I end up here posting in another "Help a dog has nearly killed my beloved chicken what do I do!!!!!!" thread yet again.