Lard, how do I prepare it?

[Chris09]

Are you sure that the edges soften or whatever when the DE gets wet?

My problem with the de-wormer that is in the appropriate dose at appropriate intervals is the amount of birds I have and trying to catch the ones who won't sleep in the coop/run. I have over 110 birds, chickens, guineas, ducks and geese. I understand that the eggs of the critters can lay on the ground until some other critter picks them up but there isn't anything that can be done to completely get rid of them, even for a short period of time.

Here is a quote from Dr. Christine King

Diatomaceous earth
"One of the most commonly used ingredients in these natural dewormers is diatomaceous earth or
diatomite. Diatomaceous earth is a naturally occurring, soft, chalky rock that, when crushed,
yields a fine, light-grey powder. It consists of fossilized remains of tiny hard-shelled algae called
diatoms. Owing to their high content of crystalline silica, diatomite is mildly abrasive.
In fact, that is the mechanism by which diatomite is purported to kill intestinal parasites. It is
believed that the abrasive micro-surfaces of the diatomite cut the outer membranes of the
parasites like thousands of tiny blades. But I question that premise. Industrial-grade diatomite
has a high silica content and is used as a mild abrasive. However, food-grade diatomite has a
much lower content of crystalline silica, so it is minimally abrasive.
And even if the abrasion theory is valid, then what does this stuff do to the delicate lining of
the digestive tract? While I could not find even one scientific study which validates the use of
diatomite against internal parasites in horses or other livestock, my search did turn up several
articles documenting the health risks of chronic exposure to diatomite. When inhaled, it causes
inflammation of the airways and, with chronic exposure, even some fibrosis (scarring).
Even more concerning was a study which showed that chronic oral intake of diatomite can
damage the intestinal lining, altering its absorptive properties and making it more permeable to
potentially harmful substances. So, it seems to me that the practice of using diatomaceous earth
as a daily dewormer for horses is either useless but harmless or useful but harmful, depending on
the grade of diatomite used.''

 

[Sylviaanne]

Yep, pretty sure that the advice of three well respected veterinarians was pretty sound. When DE first became the next best miracle, folks coming in to our offices were astounded to learn that despite giving Fluffy DE in her food for weeks, she still tested positive for roundworms. I've also read all the posts by folks who swear that DE in the food helps. But for every post like that there's another one out there that disputes it. I don't go just by the posts or even by my own experience with my chickens since, as I said, I have no first hand experience to go on with my birds. I do, however, know that 3 licensed vets probably have a better handle on the question than I do.

I sure do understand your desire to go the natural route with taking care of worms in your flocks. I feel exactly the same way - I absolutely hate doing anything chemically if there's a natural way around it. But the plain truth is that sometimes there just isn't a shortcut. And you certainly do have a lot of birds of different species to consider. I wish I could give you exactly what you want to hear but I simply don't know what the answer might be in your situation. That's another thing to take into account - everybody's situation is different and what applies to one might not apply to the next person.

If you think the DE in their food is helping, then by all means, continue to use it. I only replied because it seemed like you had reached the conclusion that it wasn't helping and I was trying to explain why.

As for them acting like they are starving to death when you go out there, well, that's pretty typical of all of them!

Feed them your usual food in the morning, then go out 10 minutes later and shake a can - they act like they haven't seen food in months! Silly birds!! I sure hope you can get a handle on what's going on. It sounds like you genuinely want to give the best care to your critters and I'd never discourage anyone from that!

Thank you. I really do appreciate your input. I don't know if the DE would do anything in a full blown worm attack but I do think it helps in some way. It's not just that they act like they are starving, I picked up 2 of them today and could clearly feel their breast bones, like they had no meat on them. One was a Silkie and the other was just a barnyard mix.

If it's not worms, then it's that they are not getting enough protein and at this point in time, I can't afford the more expensive bags of food. I want to, boy, do I want to. I got a Cochin rooster from a man who adds fish pellets to his food and his birds are HUGE compared to mine. He gets the same layer feed we do but adds the fish pellets to it. I am going to try this, probably next month when we get more food for them. I can only pray that it helps put weight back on them quickly. I will de-worm them too because I can't see that it will hurt them if they don't have an over load of worms.

 

[Temp]

Maybe you are just over reacting. If your birds have plenty of layer pellets and water at all times, look and act healthy, and are laying a good amount of eggs why worry. I have been involved in agriculture most of my 63 years and find that it is not at all uncommon for a animal at peak production to loose a little weight. Some high producing lactating cows will go from fat as a bear to skin and bones over the first half of their lactation even when fed plenty of the best feeds. I expect when your birds slow down on their egg laying they will put some weight back on. My small flock has trimmed down some since they started laying. Mine are laying around 5 eggs each/ week and eating just under 1.5 pounds of layer pellets each plus a few table scraps and whatever they can pick free ranging for a couple hours a day. A pound and a half of feed for almost a half dozen eggs does not leave a lot for weight gain.

 

[Sylviaanne]

Here is a quote from Dr. Christine King

Diatomaceous earth
"One of the most commonly used ingredients in these natural dewormers is diatomaceous earth or
diatomite. Diatomaceous earth is a naturally occurring, soft, chalky rock that, when crushed,
yields a fine, light-grey powder. It consists of fossilized remains of tiny hard-shelled algae called
diatoms. Owing to their high content of crystalline silica, diatomite is mildly abrasive.
In fact, that is the mechanism by which diatomite is purported to kill intestinal parasites. It is
believed that the abrasive micro-surfaces of the diatomite cut the outer membranes of the
parasites like thousands of tiny blades. But I question that premise. Industrial-grade diatomite
has a high silica content and is used as a mild abrasive. However, food-grade diatomite has a
much lower content of crystalline silica, so it is minimally abrasive.
And even if the abrasion theory is valid, then what does this stuff do to the delicate lining of
the digestive tract? While I could not find even one scientific study which validates the use of
diatomite against internal parasites in horses or other livestock, my search did turn up several
articles documenting the health risks of chronic exposure to diatomite. When inhaled, it causes
inflammation of the airways and, with chronic exposure, even some fibrosis (scarring).
Even more concerning was a study which showed that chronic oral intake of diatomite can
damage the intestinal lining, altering its absorptive properties and making it more permeable to
potentially harmful substances. So, it seems to me that the practice of using diatomaceous earth
as a daily dewormer for horses is either useless but harmless or useful but harmful, depending on
the grade of diatomite used.''

You get stories from both sides and I have given it to my dogs and chickens and they do seem to do better when I do. At least for a short time. I do not give it to them every day or every month. Just when I see that they look a little off.

I am wondering if the study showing that chronic oral intake can lead to damage, why isn't that information better known? You would think something like that would scare people enough to talk about it, a lot.

I think that like many things that work on humans, some it works for, some it doesn't, some can be of a body type that can be harmed by using a product, you just have to give it a try and see if it works for you.

 

[Sylviaanne]

Maybe you are just over reacting. If your birds have plenty of layer pellets and water at all times, look and act healthy, and are laying a good amount of eggs why worry. I have been involved in agriculture most of my 63 years and find that it is not at all uncommon for a animal at peak production to loose a little weight. Some high producing lactating cows will go from fat as a bear to skin and bones over the first half of their lactation even when fed plenty of the best feeds. I expect when your birds slow down on their egg laying they will put some weight back on. My small flock has trimmed down some since they started laying. Mine are laying around 5 eggs each/ week and eating just under 1.5 pounds of layer pellets each plus a few table scraps and whatever they can pick free ranging for a couple hours a day. A pound and a half of feed for almost a half dozen eggs does not leave a lot for weight gain.

Thank you. I am mostly concerned because it is now snowing outside and I figure that if they don't have much meat and if not much meat, then probably no fat then how are they supposed to keep themselves warm?

 

[Pocket Money Poultry Farm]

I read that a large chicken should eat about 1/4 pound of chicken feed a day. I'm guessing that guineas, ducks, and geese would require more than a 1/4 pound. I only have a small flock of 12 BLR Wyandottes. My chickens free range and i keep feed out for them all day long. They can all get at it whenever they want. The 1/4 pound a day is what they eat. I dont know what the numbers are of each kind of bird you have that makes up the total 110 birds. They may not be getting enough feed

 

[Blooie]

I have an idea, but I don't know if I've stepped on my own fingers here enough to make it worth hearing or not!

Rather than changing their food or trying to figure out how to add lard to their diets, how about buying a stack of those suet cakes they sell this time of year? They have lard and other things in them for energy and higher calories. I've been making my own now for years (for my wild birds) with peanut butter, lard, cornmeal, oatmeal, some chopped up fruit, and hulled black oil sunflower seeds. I pour the mixture into the little plastic containers that the store suet cakes came in and then after they set up I stack and freeze them. (I saved the little plastic containers when I decided to try making my own) The commercial suet cakes aren't that expensive, and making my own is even cheaper. You wouldn't even have to buy the little wire cages for them - you could just toss a couple of them right on the ground.

I wouldn't let them make a steady diet out of them, but it wouldn't hurt as a treat once or twice a week, would it? My girls just got their first one - I found one in the back of the freezer while getting something out for dinner, so I put it in a wire cage and hung it up in the run. I had to count my fingers to make sure I had them all they way they went for it. And it's been in the single digits with a couple of days and every night being below zero, so I thought they might appreciate the burst of protein and calories. Not only that, but they sure love the activity of getting some out of the cage!

Just a thought.

 

[Sylviaanne]

I have an idea, but I don't know if I've stepped on my own fingers here enough to make it worth hearing or not!

Rather than changing their food or trying to figure out how to add lard to their diets, how about buying a stack of those suet cakes they sell this time of year? They have lard and other things in them for energy and higher calories. I've been making my own now for years (for my wild birds) with peanut butter, lard, cornmeal, oatmeal, some chopped up fruit, and hulled black oil sunflower seeds. I pour the mixture into the little plastic containers that the store suet cakes came in and then after they set up I stack and freeze them. (I saved the little plastic containers when I decided to try making my own) The commercial suet cakes aren't that expensive, and making my own is even cheaper. You wouldn't even have to buy the little wire cages for them - you could just toss a couple of them right on the ground.

I wouldn't let them make a steady diet out of them, but it wouldn't hurt as a treat once or twice a week, would it? My girls just got their first one - I found one in the back of the freezer while getting something out for dinner, so I put it in a wire cage and hung it up in the run. I had to count my fingers to make sure I had them all they way they went for it. And it's been in the single digits with a couple of days and every night being below zero, so I thought they might appreciate the burst of protein and calories. Not only that, but they sure love the activity of getting some out of the cage!

Just a thought.

LOL You got out with all your fingers? How about your toes or the toes of your shoes? Sometimes mine seem so hungry that if I wore sandals, I might not have any toes. Where do you get the suet cakes? A feed store or someplace like Walmart?

 

[Blooie]

LOL You got out with all your fingers? How about your toes or the toes of your shoes? Sometimes mine seem so hungry that if I wore sandals, I might not have any toes. Where do you get the suet cakes? A feed store or someplace like Walmart?

Oh, I definitely have my toes. They were safely enclosed in two pairs of socks and my coop boots!

I used to pick those cakes up almost anywhere.....grocery stores, Walmart back where they keep the bird feeding supplies...dollar stores. They're pretty easy to find. I can also give you my recipe if you want to just pick up a stack of disposable plastic storage ware thingies (like those ziploc containers with lids - they usually come several in a package) and use them. Cheap and cheerful!

 

[Sylviaanne]

I read that a large chicken should eat about 1/4 pound of chicken feed a day. I'm guessing that guineas, ducks, and geese would require more than a 1/4 pound. I only have a small flock of 12 BLR Wyandottes. My chickens free range and i keep feed out for them all day long. They can all get at it whenever they want. The 1/4 pound a day is what they eat. I dont know what the numbers are of each kind of bird you have that makes up the total 110 birds. They may not be getting enough feed

Yes, about 4 ounces per adult chicken of large fowl size but I also have much smaller ones out there and I think that it kind of balances out for the geese. I still have grass and weeds for them to eat if they want it. It may not be there tomorrow cause when it decided to get cold, it decided to snow. We have snow today but just about 4 days ago it was warm. LOL

We have 2 5 gallon buckets that we drilled holes in and set them in big 4 inch deep pans. One is in the coop, one is in the addition and both are open for the birds to go in and out of. We shut the door of the coop at night so they can go in and get out of some of the cold if they want to or they can nestle down in the hay in the addition. The 5 gallon buckets hold more than I was feeding them per day before it got cold, before I took the geese out of quarantine and added them to the coop/run/addition.

The calculations I made 40# of feed divided by .4 oz equals out to 100 birds and we go through a bag in a day to a day and a half. Depending on where we buy the food, it can be a 50# bag. Yeah, it sounds like we are not feeding them enough but none of them, NONE of them act like they get enough and you know that some of them will bully their way to the feeder and should be getting filled up. We also let them out of the run to forage. Although they may not be getting enough food, which is what I am thinking now, I don't think they should be as thin as they are, not with foraging.