Line breeding: how do I get started?

[tridentk9]

Breeding is breeding. The concepts are common, passed down to us by people that depended on them. Of course their are some differences, but much is common.

I do think that poultry can be especially challenging, with the complexities of the color/patterns. Also the exacting requirements.

Challenging is not the same as different. Several times I've read on BYC that breeding poultry is different than breeding mammals but I haven't heard how breeding or the art of breeding is really any different. Just flip the pedigree so the tail line is on the top I am wondering if it's a superstition handed down from person to person and just accepted as truth without thinking it through. Superstition can be an extremely powerful force.

Exacting requirements for? LOL- and here I thought more colors were added to the SOP if they wouldn't go away. And open pedigrees, you can add in another breed to get desired results? Oh that makes it too easy.
Breeding for behaviors and drives is IMO harder as the results are internal with massive environmental variables.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Challenging is not the same as different. Several times I've read on BYC that breeding poultry is different than breeding mammals but I haven't heard how breeding or the art of breeding is really any different. Just flip the pedigree so the tail line is on the top

I am wondering if it's a superstition handed down from person to person and just accepted as truth without thinking it through. Superstition can be an extremely powerful force.

Exacting requirements for? LOL- and here I thought more colors were added to the SOP if they wouldn't go away. And open pedigrees, you can add in another breed to get desired results? Oh that makes it too easy.

Breeding for behaviors and drives is IMO harder as the results are internal with massive environmental variables.

You don't actually breed poultry, do you?

 

[tridentk9]

You don't actually breed poultry, do you?

Sigh, very disappointed in this response. Ad hominem.

 

[gjensen]

Challenging is not the same as different. Several times I've read on BYC that breeding poultry is different than breeding mammals but I haven't heard how breeding or the art of breeding is really any different. Just flip the pedigree so the tail line is on the top

I am wondering if it's a superstition handed down from person to person and just accepted as truth without thinking it through. Superstition can be an extremely powerful force.

Exacting requirements for? LOL- and here I thought more colors were added to the SOP if they wouldn't go away. And open pedigrees, you can add in another breed to get desired results? Oh that makes it too easy.

Breeding for behaviors and drives is IMO harder as the results are internal with massive environmental variables.

You don't actually breed poultry, do you?

Yes, I got suckered. I thought she was trying to learn something about breeding poultry. I finally realized that the question was not a question. Shame on me.

 

[Tuhmu]

 

[tridentk9]

 Yes, I got suckered. I thought she was trying to learn something about breeding poultry. I finally realized that the question was not a question. Shame on me.

Ahh, another ad hominem response. Disappointing.


Sigh, I still haven't heard how avian breeding is different than mammalian breeding. If having different genes makes it different- well no, that doesn't do it. Sex linked genes? Again not different. The schemes used by breeders- nope not different. It feels more and more like superstition, there may have been a reason at one time but maybe the current breeders have forgotten it? So again- HOW is it different.

I was very up front that I have no plans for breeding . I stated that in this thread and a few others. I also have no plans to breed horses, tropical fish, snakes, penguins or any of thousands and thousands of species. I like to learn new things. I'm not an expert, but I find genetics fascinating. What's not to love? Gambling, high rollers, cool equipment, new discoveries, sexy articles- yep fascinating and exciting. Keep poultry breeding boring and pedantic, continue pushing away newcomers, stiffling different ideas and soon there won't be any new converts to continue with your breeds. Can't blame others for that- it's your own fault.

 

[chooks4life]

Chooks4Life, I used some expressive statements. I did not intend for the to be specific towards you. If I got carried away, I apologize. For the most part, the statements were general. What I see a lot of, is for us to get caught up into a lot of interesting and fanciful ideas. There is noting wrong with that, of course, but we often lose our way. I am commenting on the process of learning to breed poultry. The internet is full of it. There is a lot of good information, a lot of bad information, and a lot of distracting speculation. I guess that is where I was coming from, and not intending to direct it at your contribution specifically.

I actually enjoyed the exchange itself. You are obviously intelligent, and probably brighter than myself. I am just trying to learn how to bred a few good birds. A silly hobby that has my interest.

I appreciate the gesture, but there's no need for apology. I'm the first to admit I'm still very much a learner, you probably have a lot more experience than I do. But experience isn't a linear thing, two people can take two different roads without converging for a fair while, doesn't necessarily make their experiences incorrect nor mutually exclusive, as what applies to one doesn't apply to all. That's where agreeing to disagree comes into it.

It seems to me that in any field of knowledge everyone's got pieces of the puzzle, not all of it. It's always good to have a decent, honest debate. Thanks for making helpful contributions, and also for clarifying that your comments were not directed at anyone here.

Best wishes.

Now for that statement has been repeated several times- exactly HOW is the art of poultry breeding different than the art of mammal breeding?

We share the view that it's got more similarities than differences, that does appear to be accepted by the scientific community for what that's worth, but explaining those differences is still something science itself is struggling with.

Seems every time I find something stated as absolute fact from an authoritative source I find another authoritative source claiming the direct opposite... But that's always been my experience in all educational pursuits, nobody knows it all and not a single expert is right 100% of the time, they just tend to agree on some grey areas in-between. Makes for a lot of confusion among the non-experts like myself. I suspect some areas of life sciences have such high variation that multiple experts can be right despite stating mutually exclusive 'facts'. What's true for one flock isn't necessarily true for the next.

Here's an article which may or may not be relevant to the topic, I'm just sharing because it has some findings which challenge some of the information I'm reading on other sites regarding poultry genetics and breeding:

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Here's a quote from the article, below, nothing controversial here at least... The site also has other articles comparing chickens and mammals, more so than explaining differences, seems more similarities are found than differences explained so far.

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This link below has far more information than the average breeder will ever need but addresses inbreeding in commercial poultry breeds specifically as well as loss of genetic diversity.

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This little quote may have some relevance to your question:

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But that's a pay-per-view so to speak I'm not paying almost $50 for the whole article, sorry.

Best wishes.

 

[chooks4life]

Yes, I got suckered. I thought she was trying to learn something about breeding poultry. I finally realized that the question was not a question. Shame on me.

As far as I understand, it is a question, and a legitimate one at that.

How is mammalian breeding 'very different' when having accounted for the aspects tridentk9 already took stock of?

3riverschick, I'd have thought, and some others on this thread/site should surely be able to answer that seemingly simple question in some depth, or at least I'd gained that impression anyway. Even some basics explained on the reasons that there are stated to be vast differences between avian and mammalian breeding would go a long way.

As far as I've seen this answer has not been given yet. I doubt it's anything approaching a simple answer though, but still, it remains in need of answers. Just because the person asking the question has not yet found an answer that addresses their question comprehensively, doesn't mean that person is asking a fallacious question. Seems there's a bunch of filters we're all seeing through here and meeting in the middle without bias or misunderstanding is hit-and-miss. I don't think anyone's attempting to shoot down anybody else's opinions here, at least I hope not since that's counterproductive and disrespectful.

Best wishes, looking forward to people's answers.

 

[Yoyo with chick]

Thanks guys for all the great info... But let's not fight over differing opinions. It's not right.

 

[tridentk9]

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

Eleanor Roosevelt


I'm not on the great mind level. I can only try. It is a good thought to remember during discussions.