Marek’s Disease

[h2oratt]

h2oratt, I think I bought the last batch at Jeffer's (?). I buy it where I find it like a poultry supply.

Do you have it sent on ice? You have never had a death from mareks? Do you have all your birds necropsied by a state lab? I know Cynthia was saying they can’t even trust some of the state vets.

 

[seminolewind]

If they don't send it on ice, it's no good. If you receive it warm, it's no good. I had necropsied 6-7 birds in the past to keep tabs on what my flock has or had. 2 came back death by Marek's and they were vaccinated by a hatchery. I used Florida State animal disease lab. They were very easy to communicate with .

I personally have not lost any chick I vaccinated. I have lost several from a hatchery. However I've lost chickens from common ailments because Marek's causes immunosuppression , death from coccidiosis, E.coli, Clostridium (like cocci in the small intestine and mostly no symptoms) and 2 from a one eye-eye infection. All things most chickens have resistance to.

To me, it comes down to this. I want my chickens to live. I vaccinate because I will lose chicks or chickens from Marek's because it's in my flock. The vaccine prevents death by Marek's, usually 95% success rate. That's it. It does not protect chicken from anything else , just the tumors. All exposed chickens can carry and pass the virus to other chickens whether they are vaccinated or not.

 

[seminolewind]

Do you have it sent on ice? You have never had a death from mareks? Do you have all your birds necropsied by a state lab? I know Cynthia was saying they can’t even trust some of the state vets.

Cynthia has had a time where I believe she had to deal with some lab people who were either clueless or not educated enough. It happens. I have another friend who lived thru some necropsies where the lab had diagnosed several of her chickens with a variety of diseases including Marek's. We could not believe that her chickens had several ailments at one time.

 

[sherahart]

Bumping thread because I'm a retired Clinical Lab Scientist who learned the hard way about Marek's, but I might be ahead of the curve on recent treatment research. I started studying chicken parasites and diseases when we moved to a farm in 2014. Bad experiences with our first chickens taught me Florida is paradise for parasites and disease, not for chickens or people who care for their livestock. I think Marek's took down chickens I bought before I ever understood what it was. Ditto coccidiosis. I couldn't find pictures of all those little pinwheel-like structures I saw under the microscope. Turns out they were several other stages of the coccidia lifecycle, before the little buggers mature into oocysts. Dr. Gary Butcher, U of F poultry specialist, helped me figure out what was killing so many of my birds. He travels all around the world helping commercial operators solve problems. He also taught me what to look for when doing my own necropsies when the Florida State lab diagnosed Marek's over a year ago after several juveniles died in quick succession in a run that turned mucky after heavy rains. That wasn't my first scare or chicken fatality, but before I was never sure. Since then, I've been looking harder for info on symptoms and treatments.

I found a study of several natural substances tested by Chinese scientists: Screening compounds of Chinese medicinal herbs anti-Marek's disease virus

"Results: Antiviral assay showed dipotassium glycyrrhizinate (DG) and sodium tanshinone IIA sulfonate (STS) exhibited significantly inhibitory activity against MDV in a dose-dependent manner. EC50 of DG and STS were 893.5 ± 36.99 µg/mL and 54.82 ± 2.99 µg/mL, and selective index (SI) were >3.36 and >9.12, respectively. Time of addition experiment and virucidal assay demonstrated DG inhibited viral replication in the full replication cycle and inactivated MDV particles in non-time-dependent manner, but STS interfered with the early stage of MDV replication and inactivated MDV particles in a time-dependent manner. Moreover, both DG and STS promoted apoptosis of cells infected by MDV.

Discussion and conclusion: DG and STS have great potential for developing new anti-MDV drugs for clinic application."

Note that the study used Chinese, not American or European licorice root. American glycyrrhiza glabra and European are different species from Chinese glycyrrhiza uralensis. The Chinese species does not have near as much coumadin, a blood thinner dangerous to use on a sick chicken very likely to have coccidiosis, which can cause death by multiple tiny hemorrhages. Another research study confirmed that vitamin K can prevent that, but why cause more problems using the wrong species?
Sad to say, I could not find glyccyrrhiza uralensis powder or extract the first time I shopped on Amazon. I just received some ground root of the correct species last week and started adding it to formula for one pullet who won't eat and food of the one who will eat. Too early to tell if it will work. STS alone (Dan Shen) did not save my last few pullets treated.

I am still reading another Chinese study:
Antiviral effect of baicalin on Marek's disease virus in CEF cells

Part of the abstract:
Background: Baicalin, the main metabolic component of Scutellaria baicalensis Georgi, has various pharmacological properties including anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant, anti-apoptotic, anti-bactericidal and anti-viral. The purpose of this study was to investigate the anti-Marek's disease virus (MDV) activities of baicalin in CEF cells.

Results: Here, we showed that baicalin could inhibit viral mRNA, protein levels and overall plaque formation in a time-dependent manner. We also found that baicalin could consistently inhibit MDV replication and directly affect the virus infectivity. Moreover, baicalin treatment has no effect on expression level of antiviral cytokine and inflammatory cytokines in MDV infected CEFs.

Conclusions: These results demonstrate that baicalin could be a potential drug against MDV infection.

Given other research I've read about vaccination pressure leading to very virulent forms developing and the fact that our neighbors never vaccinate, I could not vaccinate in good conscience. Instead I try to breed resistant birds, which makes it especially important never to breed siblings or to line breed. Yes, there's more research indicating both result in weak immune systems, decreased intelligence, etc. Early this year, Dr. Butcher said the next break in virulence is expected within 5 years, so I am too busy to come back here often. It's not just chickens, but that's how I spend most of my time. We haven't even finished clearing and planting all our land due to my chicken addiction, but I hope others will help find promising research, test it, and report the results.

I had to bring both my pullets into my back porch when I discovered mites eating them alive. Just eradicating those parasites without using DE (because it cuts intestines and lungs already compromised by secondary infections) has taken several weeks. If some other crazy chicken person lived nearby (Crestview, FL) , I would happily exchange fecal exams for feeding and other care chores. And maybe I could find the right substance or combination to try. I am also starting Cranberry extract capsules after reading the Japan cure. Will try to get shrimp heads and shells soon. Already use virgin coconut oil. For coccidiosis, I use diclazuril. Yep, FDA approved for chickens and nobody sells here. I ordered from China before Covid turned up, ordered more since.

Last year, I used St. John's Wort capsules (not the ridiculously diluted homeopathic pills), Doxycycline (currently being studied for human breast cancer) and nano-silver (there's more research on how that works better with antibiotics than alone). My hen who went down with ALV (I think) ate well from June to late November. She finally stopped eating the week before Thanksgiving and died 2 days prior. I felt bad that I couldn't spend time with her because of company, and I think that's why she gave up. One of my first lessons on how social chickens are came when a hen with wet pox refused to eat after 2 weeks of isolation. I put her back with the flock, and she ran and dived into the feed dish. So now I try to put a buddy with sick ones who are out of the flock more than a few days or at least put them where they can hear the others.

I will try to stop back in a couple weeks and see if anyone found something else to try.

 

[Mrs Wick]

Interesting thread about Marek. I have 2 questions :

1/ Has anyone got the case of a fully paralysed chicken who could walk again after some weeks ?
I have 2 chickens paralysed. I feed them each day.

2/ Vaccine : 1000 doses is too much.
Can it be kept (in the fridge?) once open (for chicks to come next year) or does it become ineffective once open ?

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Hi @Mrs Wick. Yes this is a very informative thread. Read again through entire post #8. @rebrascora does offer a positive answer to your question #1.

 

[Mrs Wick]

Hi @Mrs Wick. Yes this is a very informative thread. Read again through entire post #8. @rebrascora does offer a positive answer to your question #1.

Thank you. I read post #8 : he/she euthanized chickens who couldn't eat by themselves. I am beyond this stage of Marek, that's why I ask the question : if I feed them daily in the beak, will they one day get better and feed themselves on their own ?

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Oh ok i misunderstood your question; i thought u were asking if they could resume Walking by themselves. I have no answer for you, but both are good questions.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Ps. @Mrs Wick. Very sorry you are dealing with the issue. I just noticed your avatar. Heartbreaking. Hugs.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Just eradicating those parasites without using DE (because it cuts intestines and lungs already compromised by secondary infections)

Interesting post.. With lots of stuff to digest, as a person who ACTIVELY breeds for resistance to MDv and also think vaccinating is NOT the responsible choice for ME, (one who breeds)..

but inaccurate information regarding DE..

I am in the ANTI DE camp for many reasons! But it is stated ineffective in humid or moist environments.. which as far as I know is everything internally including the lungs and intestines. There are MANY choices in the US to eradicate mites and don't include DE or take weeks to be effective. A top choice for many is a permethrin based horse fly spray. Elector PSP, and even Ivermectin.. depending on parasite species being treated, size of flock, keeper's resources and perspective of course.

Thank you for sharing and sorry you face this. My intent is to support you!

Interesting thread about Marek. I have 2 questions :

1/ Has anyone got the case of a fully paralysed chicken who could walk again after some weeks ?
I have 2 chickens paralysed. I feed them each day.

2/ Vaccine : 1000 doses is too much.
Can it be kept (in the fridge?) once open (for chicks to come next year) or does it become ineffective once open ?

The vaccine needs to be used within a short period after being reconstituted is my understanding. Any excess would just be trash or considered as part of the cost of vaccinating regardless of how many doses the vial has.. if you weren't able to get together with some others and coordinate using it at the same time maybe. AS noted by another poster.. quality of vaccine outcome MAY matter including how it's shipped, stored, and administered, plus quarantined.

Some birds can recover from not walking even though not super often. The longer it's been you might want to offer some sort of physical therapy to help build up the muscles they haven't used..

But dear friend.. a bird who can no longer feed itself will not likely recover and may be doing well to digest what is being given.. is probably going down hill slowly, despite *probably* NOT being in pain.. Euthanasia is a VERY difficult but the kind choice.

My apologies as I linked here but didn't see the original post. Sorry to anyone who faces this or thinks they may be. Please consider getting a necropsy to confirm since MANY things look VERY similar in poultry disease. The following link has contact information for state poultry labs if you're located in the US..

State poultry labs