Mareks Vaccine

[horsejody]

There has been discussion on another board regarding Mareks. I think there is a lot of misinfortion out there. I know people on this board have discussed it also. Yesterday, I e-mailed Dr. Fulton at MSU. He specializes in poultry. He was very helpful when we were hit with Mareks last year. This is
what I asked him:

Last year I had a bird with Mareks. You
very kindly advised me about her health issues via
e-mail. I thank you very much for that. I would like
to ask you about vaccinations. I hatched 23 chicks
this year in an incubator and vaccinated all for
Mareks. I have poultry acquaintances that are sure
that having these chicks vaccinated will infect any
bird they ever come in contact with for the rest of
their lives. I believe it is so predoninate in the
environment that I would be crazy not to vaccinate.
As an expert, would you please tell me if these
vaccinated chicks will turn out to be "Typhoid
Mary's." Would you please tell me what the risks of
vaccination are and if vaccinated birds are a real
threat to others?
Thank You For Your Time

He very kindly sent me a prompt response. This is what he said:

Dear Jody:

I understand your and your poultry pal's concerns but you are right in your thinking about Marek's disease. Marek's disease virus is everywhere. In fact, the vaccination of poultry for Marek's disease is a race to see which virus is going to win in the bird.....the vaccine virus or the disease causing virus. While it is true that Marek's disease vaccinated birds are infected with the vaccine virus for life,
I am not aware of them shedding the vaccine virus. The good news is that the vaccine viruses do not cause disease so your chickens are safe and not "Typhoid Marys." The other vaccines used in poultry do not cause
"Typhoid Marys" except for almost all vaccines used to protect against Infectious Laryngotracheitis. Chickens vaccinated with those vaccines can shed the vaccine virus and the vaccine virus will make non-vaccinated chickens sick.

As for vaccinating your chickens for other diseases, I only recommend vaccinating chickens against diseases you have had or that are in your area. In most cases, that only includes fowl pox. Please note that chicken pox is a human disease and not a chicken disease. The virus that causes chicken pox in humans does not cause disease in chickens
nor do humans get it from chickens.

Hope this helps,

R. M. Fulton, D.V.M., Ph.D.



There is a lot of misinformation out there on the web regarding vaccinations and Mareks. People get the effects of one vaccine confused with another, etc. If birds vaccinated for Mareks are so contagious, why are they allowed in the shows? The virus in the Mareks vaccine is not the same one that causes the disease. It is just similar enough to create immunity. We all should check our sources regarding such things before passing on misinformation. Last year when my flock had an issue with Mareks, I contacted local vets and vets at poultry departments of universities with ag departments.
They all told me the same thing. And all of the university people told me that Dr Fulton was the foremost authority on it. I think I can trust my sources.

I hope that Dr. Fultons response can help people on this board as well as the other forum I posted it on.

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
If you do not properly quarantine a vaccinated chick for at least 10 days, it can get Marek's. It may not show symptoms, but will shed the virus. Quarantine means starting the chicks in a sanitized brooder with sanitized equipment, not putting the brooder in the coop, not wearing the same clothes in the coop that you wear taking care of the chicks, not letting the kids pet the chickens and come in and handle the chicks, not storing the chick food in the coop, washing your hands before handling the chicks, etc, etc, etc. It's a pain in the butt, but it can save your flock. It is my personal opinion that lack of quarantine is the reason for vaccine failure. A vaccinated chick can harbor marek's if it was not properly quarantined.

ETA: The vaccine does not just prevent symptoms. It prevents the disease if the chick was properly vaccinated and quarantined. If the chick was vaccinated but not properly quarantined you may end up with a bird that has the disease but has enough immunity to not show symptoms. The quarantine is just as important as the vaccine.

 

[aveca]

How to Vaccinate and Protect Against Marek's Chicken Disease and Poultry Health

Take a few minutes to read this article on how to vaccinate against Mareks Disease in your chickens..

-----------------

Chicken Article - Vaccinating Against Mareks Disease by K.J. Theodore of www.shagbarkbantams.com

draw 3cc of diluent
OK, I give. I finally put together an article exclusively for those of you who would like to learn how to vaccinate your chicks for Mareks Disease.

First, as indicated in my article on Mareks Disease, the sooner you vaccinate your chicks, the more effective the vaccine will be. This is because the Mareks virus is virtually everywhere, travels on the wind, and can be anywhere in your environment. It's true that you can take precautions to reduce the risk of exposure to your chicks until you have a chance to vaccinate, but basically, the longer you wait, the higher the risk. It takes about 10 days for full immunity to develop after vaccination, so plan your program accordingly. Also order your vaccine plenty of time in advance of your hatch. When you receive your vaccine, you'll get both a tiny vial that contains a freeze-dried vaccine and a large bottle of diluent to dilute and re-hydrate the vaccine. Refrigerate the small vial. You can keep the diluent at room temperature but out of direct heat or sunlight.

Let's begin with a list of needed supplies. You'll need the freeze-dried Mareks vaccine (and accompanying diluent for re-hydration), an unopened 1cc syringe with a very small needle (5/8 or 16mm), an unopened 3cc syringe with standard needle, rubbing alcohol, cotton balls, an 'ice bath' (bowl containing chipped ice) if you plan on taking more than half an hour to administer after mixing, and of course, a cheering section.

After popping the tops off of both the diluent and the vial of freeze-dried vaccine (leaving the rubber stoppers in tact in both cases), apply alcohol to the rubber stoppers of each. Take the 3cc syringe and draw a full 3cc of diluent.

Insert the needle into the freeze-dried vial of vaccine and inject all 3cc of diluent. Shake the vial very gently to re-hydrate the vaccine. While using the same 3cc syringe, draw back on the plunger to draw in 3cc of air.

Insert the 3cc syringe into the vial to release the air and break the vacuum so that you can draw the vaccine out of the vial. With the needle just inside the rubber stopper and the vial upside down, draw all of the hydrated vaccine out of the vial.

Insert the needle into the bottle of diluent and inject the entire 3cc of vaccine. Gently rock the bottle of diluent back and forth to mix the solution. You now have active vaccine ready to administer to the chicks. Using your 1cc syringe (for the first time), draw out as much vaccine as you are comfortable with handling at one time. Each chick will receive 0.2cc of vaccine. (This dosage applies to all sizes of chicks.) That means that if you fill the 1cc syringe to the 1.0 mark, then you have enough to vaccinate 5 chicks before you need to redraw vaccine from the diluent bottle. Place the diluent bottle full of active vaccine into the 'ice bath' until you need to draw again, IF you think you will take more than half an hour to administer all of the vaccines. (The virus dies and renders the vaccine ineffective after about one hour.)

Next (and assuming that you are right-handed), take the first victim - I mean chick - in your left hand, face down and with the head facing away from you. Use your left forefinger and thumb to separate the 'fuzz' on the back of the neck of the chick. Don't worry if it doesn't work, the next step will help it along.


draw 3cc of re-hydrated vaccine ,hold chick face down ,insert needle just under skin injected vaccine creates bubble

Use an alcohol-soaked cotton ball to clean the injection site. You will notice that the alcohol makes most of the fuzz seem to disappear, and you will see the skin clearly. You should also be able to see some tiny veins through the skin. This is good, since it will help you to avoid them when injecting the vaccine (of course this offers no help whatsoever when trying to avoid vaccinating yourself).



Using the 1cc syringe with vaccine in it, insert the needle at an angle toward yourself, and just under the skin. You won't need to insert the needle very far in order to grab just enough skin with the tip of the needle to insure that you are truly just under the skin, as opposed to into the muscle. A slight lift up on the inserted needle tip will verify further where you are. (Yes, that yellow chick lived.)

When you inject the accurate dose of 0.2cc of vaccine just under the skin, you will notice a 'bubble' forming where the vaccine is accumulating. This means that you are properly administering a subcutaneous (or SQ) injection of the vaccine. (I know, different chick used for the bubble picture. No, the other one did not die while I was doing this. Honest.)

Be sure to swipe your needle over an alcohol-soaked cotton ball in between injections to keep your needle sterile for your next chick.

After vaccination, the chicks may seem, well, like they might die. They may be in a little bit of shock from the chill of the alcohol to the back of their neck. After all, they're preferably only a day old and still accustomed to being very warm. Keep them closely monitored for 24 hours to insure that they don't get out from under the brooder during that time or get flipped over. You should right them when you notice that happening and place them squarely under the brooder. No, it is not necessary for you to stay up all night with them, but I know many of you will be tempted. (I know who you are.)

http://poultryone.com/images/drawv.jpg

http://poultryone.com/images/holdck.jpg

http://poultryone.com/images/injec2.jpg

http://poultryone.com/images/bubble.jpg

 

[Mahonri]

The dosage of vaccination for adults is the same as for chicks. .2cc just under the skin, back of the neck.

Fort Dodge sells it and gives instructions.

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
Marek's is everywhere. It's a herpes virus. Unvaccinated birds will carry the disease latent in their system. If the birds are put under stress, you risk the the disease being activated and becoming more virulent in your flock. Trust me, the few pennies it costs is well worth it. It's an awful disease. It's like saying, "Nobody at my house has ever had measles, so I'm not going to waste $25 to get my child vaccinated for measles," or "I have never seen a dog with distemper in my neighborhood, so I'm not getting my gog vaccinated for it." The hatcheries don't recommend it because they figure that if a entire backyard flock of hatchery birds is lost, then you can still economically replace them. The recommendation is not because there is no risk.

 

[ArizonaDesertChicks]

The only way to keep your entire flock vaccinated for Marek's is to purchase vaccinated chicks from a hatchery and keep them quarantined for at least 10 days or to hatch your own in an incubator and keep them quarantined. Most feedstores do not sell vaccinated chicks - vaccinated chicks cost more money and can't be safely quarantined at a feedstore. So.... those of us who purchase chicks from feedstores or let our hens hatch eggs will be raising unvaccinated chickens.

Typically, Marek's strikes chickens between 12-24 weeks of age. For those of you who are worrying about your unvaccinated older chickens; you don't need to be concerned about your older chickens getting Marek's disease once they are at least 7 months old (it could happen, but it's rare). You can always vaccinate your new additions to the flock to keep them safe as long as you hatch them yourself or buy vaccinated chicks from a hatchery.

My flock of 21 are unvaccinated. I have 13 that are safely past the age of getting Marek's. I did lose one pullet about 3 months ago at 16 weeks of age, but never determined the cause -- all the rest of the chickens have been very healthy. I hate the idea of losing any of my chickens so I'm going to be extra vigilant in making sure my 8 younger pullets (now 14 weeks old) are not stressed during the danger zone. That means making sure they get extra nutrition like yogurt, greens, etc, and not integrating them into the older flock until they have started laying. Integration is stressful on newcomers and I think Marek's tends to attack their systems when the chickens are getting ready to start laying.

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
The vaccine virus is different than the actual Marek's virus. It's just similar enough to create immunity. A properly vaccinated and quarantined chick will NOT become a carrier. Chicks that are vaccinated and not properly quarantined may becaome carriers. Chicks don't have full immunity until about 10 days after the vaccination. A chick that is exposed to the outdoors, adult unvaccinated birds, unsanitized brooders, etc. within that 10 day period will only have partial immunity. They may have enough immunity to lessen or never show clinical signs, but they may become carriers. The only way to do it right is to QUARANTINE AFTER VACCINATION!! The myth of the vaccine creating carriers comes from the people that vaccinate their chicks and don't properly quarantine them. During their quarantine keep them away from adult birds that were not vaccinated and quarantined as chicks. Sanitize your brooder before using it. Wash your hands before handling the chicks. Don't wear the same clothes that you wore in the coop while you are handling the chicks.

 

[ParadiseFoundFarm]

Dear Frazzeled:
"an once of protection is worth a pound of cure" I have asked this same question some years ago, but I asked a professional while in his class. His name is Dr Waters. He is the head of the Illinois Animal Welfare, in charge of many things including the state of Illinois' NPIP program. He is also a teacher. His answer to me is that not all inoculations take under the best of circumstances but understanding that, the optimal time to inoculate for Mereks is day old. You can inoculate and get lesser protection up to 2 weeks. After 2 weeks of age, the protection rates drop dramatically. So, what that tells me is that you inoculate all birds as they come into your flock that are 2 weeks of age or less ASAP.
I hope this clears up any confusion for you as it did for me.
Denise
Paradise Found Farm

 

[chookaholic]

I've just read this thread with great interest and am shellshocked about the misinformation that is out there.

Firstly - chickens vaccinated against Mareks disease are carriers AND shedders for life. Here is just one source:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15757475

I learnt this the hard way.

The season before last I lost two thirds of my flock of heritage breed birds to Mareks disease. The cause? I had bought 6 day-old Hyline pullets which had been vaccinated against Mareks. The strain of virus that had been used to vaccinate these chicks had only recently been introduced. My heritage breed poultry had no immunity against this strain of Mareks disease.

None of my birds who were adults when these commercial hybrids joined our flock got Mareks. This tells me that vaccinating an adult bird is not necessary.

None of my chicks who were older than 6 months at the time the vaccinated chicks arrived succumbed to Mareks. So their immune system must have been strong enough to develop immunity in time.

I raised the Hyline pullets in the same brooder as 3 other breeds: Silkies, Orpingtons and Cochins.

None of the vaccinated Hyline chicks died. All grew up healthy and strong and a few of my free rangers were able to walk right up to their brooder which is in the garage.

All Silkie chicks died from Mareks - not only those who grew up with the Hylines but also all that were hatched long after the Hylines had started to lay. The parents were unaffected.

About half of my Orpington and Cochin chicks died. This included those who were raised with the Hylines and all chicks hatched and raised while we had the Hylines. The survivors were those who were hatched and raised by a mother hen (didn't help the Silkies, though). Some hen hatched and raised chicks still succumbed to Mareks but the incidence was a lot lower than among incubator hatched chicks.

Death by Mareks occurred between 3 weeks and 18 months of age. I have done post mortems on many of them and most had tiny tumors all through their lymph system. Only about one third displayed classic Mareks symptoms like paralysis. Others were emaciated or blind or had huge skin tumors.

What they all had in common was that they were bright and eating well until 2 or 3 days before they died (or were euthanised).

This past season I lost maybe half a dozen chicks to Mareks - out of hundreds. I do not vaccinate.

The most important thing to do is to slowly and carefully subject new chicks to the virus. This can be done by either letting a hen raise them or by using common sense when caring for chicks in a brooder.

I don't sterilise my brooders. I clean them with water (they are made from plastic), let them dry in the sun and fill them with new bedding material. Drinkers and feeders are scrubbed with water and dishwashing liquid.

I don't sterilize my clothing or hands or anything when making the rounds.

And last but not least - I guess those individuals who were not strong didn't survive and therefore weren't able to pass on their weak genes which resulted in far fewer losses. I do no longer have Silkies.

 

[Eggcessive]

I know I am replying to an old post, but I hope someone is able to answer my question. What if chicks are hatched by the hen. I am willing to "learn" how to vaccinate (I would feel bad if I did something wrong), but they usually do not all hatch on the same day and the vaccine has to be used within 2 hours. What is one to do?

When vaccinating for Mareks, the chicks would need to be isolated for at least 2 weeks in an environment free of Mareks, such as a brooder, to develop immunity to the disease. If vaccinating new chicks, you would need to wait until the last chicks are hatched, then hope none are exposed while the vaccine is taking effect. This is the dilemma facing most people with home raised or broody raised chicks.