Meatie Experiment: FF 'vs' Crumbles

[jrsckn]

After reading and implementing fermented feed for my layer chicks a month ago, I decided to do an experiment for the 25 CX meaties I had on order. I started this thread to keep all my posts together so they don't get lost in the fermented feed thread. Hope you enjoy, I'm excited to finally get started

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Abbreviations: CC- crumble chicks; FFC- fermented feed chicks; FF- fermented feed; ACV apple cider vinegar w/mother

Purpose: to compare different methods of raising meaties to determine the most beneficial way to raise them. Feed intake and cost will be examined and compared to processed weights. The chickes will be raised using three methods; dry crumbles, fermented crumbles, and fermented crumbles with pasture.

Preparation for chicks: 5/28/12 Begin fermentation. Add 4C purina medicated start and grow, 2 tablespoons ACV, 1/4C liquid from fermentation bucket for 11 week old chicks, cover with water - approx 2L total, stir, and loosely cover. Stir several times a day.
Fill dry chick feeder with 3C purina medicated start and grow(PMS&G). PMS&G was chosen because there is a large population of feral cats in the area and while it shouldn't be necessary for FFC, precautions were needed for CC so to keep data consistent, the same feed must be fed to both chicks.

Day 1 5/30/12
Meaties arrived at 4:30pm. They were placed in the brooder. Eight were placed on one side of a 1/2" wire mesh divider and were provided sugar water (1/4C sugar per gallon of water). Seventeen chicks were placed on the other side of the divider and were provided sugar water with 1 tsp of AVC per half gallon. The chicks with the ACV in the water drank more frequently. After one hour, dry crumbles were provided for the 8 chicks and fermented feed was provided for the other 17 chicks. CC consumed the dry feed but the ff was untouched. By 9pm, the CC were active and FFC were mostly sleeping. Crumbles were added to the FF to encourage eating. The FFC ate the crumbles but left the FF.

Day 2 5/31/12
7am- CC ate a decent amount of feed and spilled crumbles all over but the FFC hardly touched the ff. The FFC were observed fighting over dried poop so the 18" ff feeder was removed, dry crumbles were added. The chicks ate the crumbles voraciously. A tupperware lid with a spoonful of ff was added with crumbles around it to encourage eating of ff while being able to closely monitor consumption.
4pm- ff was completely gone, another spoonfull was added
9pm- ff was eaten again and more was added
- all chicks were doing well, eating, drinking and active

 

[Compost King]

I have never fermented feed, I did not want to spend time doing it, or risk screwing it up or fermenting too much at one time ... I read about how to do it once and forgot the process. I need to work on other areas of chicken keeping and getting those areas right before I move on to fermented feed. I believe it is a good idea for those who know exactly what they are doing and in the future I may try it.

 

[jrsckn]

Day 64 8/1/12 Wednesday WEEK 9 RESULTS
Crumble Chicks

Live Weight

Processed Weight/Skinned

Dressing Percentage
8.28

5.55

67.029
7.37

4.93

66.893
8.25

5.49

66.545​

Average: 7.967 5.323 66.822%
Average Weight: 23.90 / 3 chicks = 7.967 lb
Wk 9.5 gain: 7.967 lb wk 9.5 – 7.567 lb wk 8 = 0.400 lb gain wk 9.5
Lbs Consumed: 48.67 lb total – 43 lb wk 9 = 5.67 lb consumed wk 9.5
Lbs Consumed per Chick: 5.67 lb / 3 chicks = 1.89 lbs consumed per chick
Lbs Gained per lbs Consumed: 0.400 lb gain / 1.89 lb consumed = 0.212 lb gain/lb consumed
Overall Feed Consumed: 15.13 lb thru wk 9 +1.890 lb wk 9.5 = 17.020 lb consumed/chick
Overall Gain per lb: 7.967 lb gain / 17.020 lb consumed = 0..468 lb gain/lb feed
Cost This Week: 1.89 lb * $0.34/lb = $0.643/ chick
Overall Cost: Thru wk 9 $5.077 + wk 9.5 $0.643 = $5.72
Overall Cost per lb Live-weight: $5.72/7.967 lb = $0.718 / lb live-weight
Overall Cost per lb Processed/Skinned: $5.72 / 5.323 lb = $1.075/lb

Straight Fermented Feed Chicks

Live Weight

Processed Weight/Skinned

Dressing Percentage
7.98

5.49

68.797
7.46

4.85

65.013
8.37

5.31

63.441
9.48

6.04

63.713
9.1

5.95

65.385
8.5

5.18

60.941
9.54

6.54

68.553​

Average: 8.633 5.623 65.120%
Average Weight: 60.43 lb / 7 chicks = 8.663 lb
Wk 9.5 gain: 8.663 lb wk 9.5 – 8.063 lb wk 9 = 0.570 gain wk 9.5
Lbs Consumed: 124 lb total – 106 lb wk 9 = 18 lb consumed wk 9.5
Lbs Consumed per Chick: 18 lb / 7 chicks = 2.571 lbs consumed per chick
Lbs Gained per lbs Consumed: 0.570 lb gain / 2.571 lb consumed = 0.222 lb gain/lb consumed
Overall Feed Consumed: 18.010lb thru wk 9 + 2.571 lb wk 9.5 = 20.581 lb consumed/chick
Overall Gain per lb: 8.663 lb gain / 20.581 lb consumed = 0.419 lb gain/lb feed
Cost This Week: 2.571 lb * $0.34/lb = $0.874 / chick
Overall Cost: Thru wk 9 $6.071+ wk 9.5 $0.874= $6.945
Overall Cost per lb Live-weight: $6.945/ 8.663 lb = $0.804 / lb live-weight
Overall Cost per lb Processed/Skinned: $6.945 / 5.623 lb = $1.235/lb

Fermented Feed + Grain Chicks

Live Weight

Processed Weight/Skinned

Dressing Percentage
6.32

3.61

57.120
7.65

4.44

58.039
6.35

4.31

67.874
8.32

5.03

60.457
6.05

3.48

57.521
7.86

4.55

57.888
6.15

3.60

58.537
7.18

4.27

59.471
7.65

4.57

59.739​

Average: 7.059 4.207 59.627%
Average Weight: 63.53 lb / 9 chicks = 7.059 lb
Wk 9.5 gain: 7.059 lb wk 9.5 – 6.309 lb wk 9 = 0.750 lb gain wk 9.5
Lbs Consumed: 131 lb total – 106 lb wk 8 = 25 lb consumed wk 9.5
Lbs Consumed per Chick: 25 lb / 9 chicks = 2.778 lbs consumed per chick
Lbs Gained per lbs Consumed: 0.750 lb gain / 2.778 lb consumed = 0. 270lb gain/lb consumed
Overall Feed Consumed: 15.153 lb thru wk 9 + 2.778 lb wk 9.5 = 17.931 lb consumed/chick
Overall Gain per lb: 7.059 lb gain / 17.931 lb consumed = 0394 lb gain/lb feed
Cost This Week: 2.778 lb / 2 = 1.389 lb; (1.389 lb * $0.34/lb) + (0.695 lb * $0.20/lb)+(0.695*.38) = $0.875 / chick
Overall Cost: Thru wk 9 $4.43+ wk 9.5 $0.875 = $5.305
Overall Cost per lb Live-weight: $5.305 / 7.059 lb = $0.752 / lb live-weight
Overall Cost per lb Processed/Skinned: $5.305 / 4.207 lb = $1.261 / lb

Overall Conclusions:

Cheapest - most expensive : CC , SFF <,FFG
Biggest - smallest : SFF , CC , FFG

 

[wantsomechicks]

I'm using 20% protein organic FF with my flock of 3 week chicks (a mix of CX, DP, layers, and 1 silkie). 29 birds total. They are all in an open-air outdoor coop and have been since they were 10 days old. It's crazy hot here in AZ, over 100 degrees every day. Overnight, it dips into the 60s. In the cool mornings, the chicks are active; even the CX are flying and roosting. By mid-day everyone is looking pretty miserable. I find them huddled on the frozen bottles I put out there. I think the FF helps keep them healthy and hydrated. They seem to be eating a lot despite the heat and I like how the wet feed minimizes scratching and food waste. I've not yet had any chick losses. I cannot believe how fat the CX are. When I imagined this process, I had hoped to have them free ranging a bit, but with the heat, I'm afraid they'll venture too far away from the water/shade. Also, we don't have grass or pasture here. But there are other plants, seeds, bugs, and lizzards. I might start giving them an hour out right before bed. I use the easy backslop method of FF. It doesn't take much effort or thought. I get a pretty good ferment in less than 24 hours (probably due to the heat). I don't keep mine covered in water. The FF soaks up all the water, so I don't have to do any straining.

 

[myhubbycallsmechickeemama]

Looking forward to updates.

 

[kelpieschick]

I'm excited to see your results too! I started out giving my babies FF exclusively (which they loved) but because of my long work days I ended up doing half FF and half crumbles. They like both of them equally and it seems to give them the same benefits. They have normal poos and they don't stink at all. So far (knock on wood) they are all healthy and happy. One thing I noticed when I started giving them the dry food too is that their water consumption jumped up big time. I also got a few with poo stuck to their feathers which had not started until I began the crumbles.

I am surprised that your babies did not like the FF. Mine loved it right away. Did you use ACV ?

I look forward to hearing your progress!

 

[AbbyDog]

This may be an ignorant question, but what is the 'medication' in the medicated chick starter- and would it interfere with the acv bacterial culture?

 

[jrsckn]

Abbydog:
The medication is amprolium, it prevents the chicks from getting coccidiosis by blocking thiamine uptake. It doesn't stop the fermentation process with acv at all.

kelpieschick:
I did use acv so I'm not sure why they didn't like it at first. A couple stood and ate it like crazy but that did not influence the others one bit lol.


Day 3 6/1/12
7am- chicks all appeared in good health. CC had spilled dry feed everywhere so the feeder was removed to encourage scratching which was successful and the feeder was replaced a couple hours later. FFC had consumed all their feed so it was refilled.

In the kitchen, the dish strainer towel had some mold growing on it due to the hot humid weather over the weeked. Mold was also observed on some biscuits so the remaining ff was strained and placed in the refridgerator in case of contamination. The liquid was discarded, bucket washed, and a new batch of ff was started with 4C feed, 3T ACV, 6C water, and a scoop from the bottom of the older chick fermenmt bucket to get things fermenting quickly.

I decided to get my first weights on the chicks, I wanted to do it on day 1 but I didn't want to stress them out too much after being at the feed store all day. My results were not too surprising since the FFC didn't eat well the first day and a half. The one surprise is I have 1 extra chick in the ff group; apparently I can't do simple math lol. All chicks were weighed in ounces. FFC were: 2 at 1.875, 2, 8 at 1.75, 5 at 1.5, and 2 at 1.375. The average weight of FFC was 1.67 ounces. CC were: 2.5, 2.125, 2, 2 at 1.875, and 3 at 1.75. The CC average weight was 1.95 ounces.

Without getting a before weight, it's hard to draw conclusions but based on the fact that FFC hardly ate for the first day and it's highly unlikely the heaviest chicks all went in the CC pen, I think the CC are off to a better start so far. But, their feeder is almost empty. They started with 3C of crumbles and the FFC started with 4C and still have 16oz of wet fermented food in the fridge. The ratio of CC vs FFC is 8:18; there are 10 more chicks eating ff and they are eating approximately the same amount of feed as CC! Even with the reduced intake on day 1 that is astounding.

 

[Island Roo]

You started a new thread for the experiment!

My meaties were hesitant (at first) to eat the FF but they were already used to dry feed. I would not have expected the same from day-old chicks getting their first meal. On my next batch maybe I'll sprinkle dry over top the FF to get them started.

Also interesting observation about the ACV water.

Thanks for sharing your experiment / results!

 

[shadowmane]

Okay, now my curiosity is peeked. Feed Store chicks are fed crumbles when they arrive. That might be why they reject the FF immediately and have to get used to it. I would be curious to find out if birds received directly from the mail would go straight for the FF, of if they would have an adjustment period too.