Medicated or Non? Starter/Grower or Layer?

[NJisBearCountry]

I'm sure this has been covered exhaustively in previous threads.

We just lost one of our two lovely Polish pullets this week to what we suspect may have been wasting due to a vitamin deficiency, based on the preliminary results from her necropsy. We have been feeding them medicated starter/grower and I think she was overly sensitive to the amprolium and developed a severe vitamin B deficiency that I was unable to sufficiently correct before she succumbed to weakness, malnourishment, and eventually anorexia. I'm pretty upset about the whole turn of events. Our other Polish girl misses her bestie but is still bopping around and seems quite healthy and well-fed and is still on the medicated starter/grower. We're going to get her some new friends asap (they'll be quarantined first of course) so she isn't lonely.

Francese, the remaining Polish, is 18 weeks old and showing more and more signs of puberty and getting ready to lay. SO! If you were me would you:
a. keep her on the food she's already doing well on and just add some oyster shell to get ready for eggs?
b. switch her to a non-medicated starter/grower and add oyster shell and stick with that indefinitely for the increased protein?
c. switch her to a layer formula? now? in 2 more weeks?
d. something else?

 

[Ridgerunner]

I could write a long post on medicated feed. And I have, I'll copy that at the end. But they have gained al the advantage from the Amprolium they are going to. They did that months ago. Since there is no further advantage to feeding Amprolium I'd stop.

Personally I don't believe feeding them a high protein content is necessary so I would not switch feed to increase protein content. But I don't know what protein content you are feeding now. You don't know when she will start laying, could be real soon, may still be months away. I'd switch to a low calcium feed, not Layer, and offer oyster shell on the side. She should know when she needs the extra calcium.

Now that long post on medicated feed.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

 

[alexanye]

If you are going to feed medicated feed, how long should you feed it?