minimal feeding requirements

[Nardo]

Quote: I do leaves also. Huge oaks on our property and I rake up the patio and walkways only. All of these get dumped into the run area where they get scratched in, pecked over, stepped on, etc. I use leaves as bedding in nest buckets too. The hens love leaves more when it rains and the insects get active. We rake leaves into the flowerbeds in the Winter and back out in the Spring. All of this gets composted, used to deter weeds in the garden or goes to the chickens.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

REVELATION!!!

OK, so I am in the camp that some worm load is normal and do fecal floats to determine if worming is needed, do it right. It's about $15 at my vet, so I bought my own microscope because I have a large flock, plus goats and dogs. 10 floats and it pays for itself! It's super easy.

BUT... seriously, some of my girls get parasites and others don't seem to have them.... Culling considerations other than just personality, or standards... I'm definitely breeding for HEALTH. Thanks for a tip on what else to look for when you see NO signs of illness. I've been trying to figure that one out. And every little clue adds up! I even keep notes and records to anything I notice at any point in any bird... because relying on memory has proved ineffective.

Also, trying to think about doing DL, but have feared in the PNW that it will be too wet!!! Even though I have trees a plenty, it's hard to get/find the leaves as the land is used to consuming them.. Great, helpful insights. Thank you!

@gadus

Only medication I have used was Corid, for Coccidiosis. I did have a float done to confirm. It was with my first good sized brood and I didn't realize the shavings were wetter than they looked. It was a good learning experience. I don't use medicated feed.

I also ferment my chicken feed (20% flock raiser). Flock is 29 hens, 4 roosters, 14 eight week old. They free range all day in the land of plenty. I go though about a 50# bag per week (cost is subjective to location, I pay $19 lay is $16). Sometimes I use 1 more bag in a month depending on weather or say when the others are more grown before harvest. I provide oyster shell on the side.

I sprout barley (50# bag last super long and my goats love it to, sometimes to fodder point) as a treat and I grow live meal worms as it is so easy to do, cheaper and more nutritious than dry. And the chickens act like it's drugs they can't live without. I'm tight though, so they get them too often. Also takes a while to have a good true harvest of meal worms with that many birds.

Actual savings summary...

Fermenting saves me some, but no way do I think it's 30%. But even with minor savings there, the notable difference in the poo was all the convincing I needed and that didn't take 3 weeks. But the suggested saving of 30% meant I could get 30% more birds, right?!

Also, I haven't had any illness, but nor did I before fermenting. However if the increased health is true (and you can tell a lot about an animal by the state of their poo), then there have got to be overall long term saving in your whole flock... not to mention the avoidance of the headache dealing with illness. Though I doubt no one who ferment has ever experienced illness... it's just one weapon in the armory to fight of disease.

Sprouting, because my pasture is good enough (1 acre in PNW, not a city lot in the desert) is most practical as a treat that they love and is nutritious plus I enjoy both growing it and feeding it out. And even if some disagree, I site a paper that states (around page 7 bottom) ... It has their testing data there as well...

"It is concluded that no increase in quantity and quality of DM and nutrients could be obtained by sprouting barley grain still some DM and DOM loss was found in green fodder, therefore economically it is not recommended for animal farming."
http://www.idosi.org/wasj/wasj16(4)12/9.pdf

Free ranging is where I see my biggest savings! I cannot believe the difference of how much stuff the chicks will go after when taken to pasture. Plus its saves on bedding as well since they poo outside. I can hear the flock mowing all around me when I'm out there. Even with feed available they eat some but they all like foraging. I put the same amount of feed out most days. On rainy days it will be licked clean and on sunny days there will be quite a bit left, which supports that ranging equals savings because they aren't out as much in the heavy rain. I haven't researched the actual nutrient content of my forage. I'm guessing most plants are lower than 16% protein, while bugs are probably higher. But I have zero control over what they eat, which is one reason I go with flock raiser, but the other reason is I always have different aged birds in my flock. I MAY have to consider lowering the protein content after the ducklings arrive. I am still researching. The flock is very dynamic always growing and changing. Having new challenges. It's great to be a part of the BYC community where we can all share our experiences and learn from each other.

One more paper, since you are asking feeding requirement... (note one misprint says 5-17% protein when it should say 15)
Page 4 has the protein % guidelines for different breeds, dual purpose and prolific layers. It also has the general consumption guidelines of what the birds should approximately go through...
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/186894.pdf

Of course, these are all just guide lines, and every situation is different. So do what seems most appropriate for YOU!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Kudos to Lazy Gardener et al who rightly understand that I am not trying to create a chicken death camp.

I neither want to coddle my hens nor give them things they don't need, including unnecessary meds. I also do not have names for them although I have grown attached to them and they exist largely to provide me and my family with eggs and fertilizer for the garden. They also provide good pest control. They are NOT my pets but they are critters whose healthy lives are important to me and whose existence I respect as much as any other creature on this earth.

It is clear to me from the great advice from Lazy Gardener et alia, that I can do a great deal more to save money, while also improving my birds' diet and resistance to parasites and infections. Who could say no to that?

To wit, I have access to lots of leaves on my property and plan on bagging them in the fall. I had wondered if there was enough "cushion" on the coop floor for birds flying down several feet off the roosts; wondered also about the wet factor on my plywood floor (didn't get around to sealing it before it was time to move the birds in).

Also, everything I've read here seems positive for fermentation; I'm going to give it try with the next feed bag, hopefully the cheaper kind you mentioned; I have been giving them, as mentioned, a 22% feed because my friendly feed-and-seed guy in Ellsworth is a knowledgeable guy with his own flock and isn't repeating something he saw on Youtube or anywhere else (not that I don't like Youtube, Youtube is a terrific site).

Also, yes to the whole grain additives which I may introduce slowly to the mash as they get used to new feed and in a new form.

Thanks much.

I hate to say it... but "knowledgeable friends" are a HUGE problem!

It's nice when people are try to be helpful. But no matter how many time they say "you gotta go clean the coop at 6 am"... If you're not a morning person, that will NEVER work for you, just as an example. And what works for your neighbor might not work for you. And if it doesn't work for you, it DOESN'T work.

I have been misinformed by plenty of people who I respect and trusted their advice. It is OK to get a second or third... on BYC, 15th opinion. Especially if you get advice at any feed store, please seek a second opinion!

It's OK to try things and find out they don't work to!

And then move forward with the knowledge you have.

 

[lazy gardener]

Re: DL and mulch in PNW where you have a lot of rain: Deep mulch/litter works like a sponge. So, it absorbs the extra moisture when you have a deluge, instead of all of that water soaking into your soil, or running off, and causing a lot of erosion. Then, when the weather dries out a bit, it can release that moisture to the soil and plant roots below. Imagine a large sponge sitting on top of a bucket of soil. Pour 2 cups of water over the sponge, and that sponge will soak up the water without saturating the soil below. Now, imagine doing the same with the bucket without the sponge. The water will saturate the soil.

Mulch is good for both dry and wet climates!!!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Re: DL and mulch in PNW where you have a lot of rain: Deep mulch/litter works like a sponge. So, it absorbs the extra moisture when you have a deluge, instead of all of that water soaking into your soil, or running off, and causing a lot of erosion. Then, when the weather dries out a bit, it can release that moisture to the soil and plant roots below. Imagine a large sponge sitting on top of a bucket of soil. Pour 2 cups of water over the sponge, and that sponge will soak up the water without saturating the soil below. Now, imagine doing the same with the bucket without the sponge. The water will saturate the soil.

Mulch is good for both dry and wet climates!!!

I guess my worry is mold... if the chickens don't stir enough. I should probably check out a DL thread now that I have a little more interest/info and stay on topic mostly. Thanks

 

[lazy gardener]

I don't think that mold will be an issue. Fungus will proliferate, but fungi are beneficial for both break down of the DL and for populating the chicken's guts for improved digestion and immunity. Perhaps to set your mind at ease, you could do a boxed in area in your run, or a single bed in your garden. I often advise folks to start with a small area when in doubt. That way, they can see the benefit for themselves, especially when compared to the "old school" way of doing things.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I guess my worry is mold... if the chickens don't stir enough. I should probably check out a DL thread now that I have a little more interest/info and stay on topic mostly. Thanks

My experience with Deep Litter has been positive IF I use pine shavings and IF the bedding has contact with the ground (it needs the microbes from the soil).

Straw and leaves mold for me in my cool wet PNW area....mold grows so quickly. I have to really watch spilled feed that gets moist as it will be moldy in a few days. (Some weather patterns are much worse than others, so mold conditions come and go somewhat).

So question for those who ferment...and especially those in cool, wet areas....do you have trouble with molding?

How do you "ferment" a bag of feed? Poor some water on it and let it sit in the can? I can almost assuredly get mold that way in no time. (I mistakenly left the feed can lid off, and rain hit the feed molding within a few days. I had to dump the remaining feed and start with a fresh dry bag).

I'm very interested in fermenting, just not sure how to safely go about it in my area.

As to the OP's question, I find my hens honestly do best on standardized layer feed for egg quality...much more so than all flock with oyster or calcite grit. The egg quality and production is much better. As I have limited range, (1/3 acre for them), they free range all day, but I believe they must get most of their nutrients through feed as they over graze the area (I average 15 birds plus broodies with grow outs, although I've cut back for this winter honestly to save costs and some work).

I have at times gone to produce stores and collected vegetable toss outs. Talk to the produce manager. One store is very happy to let people have their trimmings for free as it saves them garbage costs. It is a good way to get free plant greens, but the content does vary depending upon the season and who you deal with.

My yard stays pretty green all year, so grass and such is not too much of an issue, unless the birds have really overgrazed. I attempt a gate system to keep that in check. I say attempt as they are all Houdini's (even with wing clips) and love to get onto the "people" side and into the fresh grass.

Protein is more of an issue. I do find mine do better on 18% to 20% protein pretty much all year, though I can cut back to 16% in summer, so I target that in layer feed.

I have switched from the big name brands to a smaller, lesser known brand, after researching its content. It is about $4 cheaper for 50lbs (around $12.99), though only 16% protein. I have mixed all flock or even chick start with layer 16% to boost protein with good result.

The most important thing for me is to hang the feeders at beak height to avoid billing out a lot. I also do best if I feed only in the coop (it has a built in tray) and lock the birds tight in the coop. That cuts down on rodent loss during the night (but not the daytime). Putting cayenne pepper (when I remember to), does honestly help with rodent loss as the oils in the pepper affect the rodents but not the chickens.

I've gone around full circle on worming. My daughter studied to be a Vet Tech while still at home, and we used my flock as her "guinea pigs." Even on healthy birds, there is a worm presence. Vets obviously promoted seasonal worming, which we began; however, the FDA has made that more and more difficult as they have now pretty much pulled all products off the shelves. There is currently no FDA approved wormer for laying hens (matters if you sell eggs and want to remain within FDA approval for customer purposes).

I've tried herbals, with limited success. Herbals really rely on field rotation as they flush the bird's system but don't kill the worms outright (leaving them alive and well for pick up by the next bird, along with the intermediary stages).

With small holdings, field rotation can be hard. I do clean out my runs seasonally, usually twice a year. Actually I have my gardening friends do that for me. They gleefully come with shovels and buckets in tow as they scoop the black gold for free from my DL method in run.

So I am now focusing on sustainability in regards to worming and culling those who are problematic (birds not gardening friends). Lazy Gardener has stated a truth, an epiphany really, that 10% of the birds have 90% of the parasites, and thereby act as a vector for the others. With little ability to treat any more, I now cull (spelled KILL for me as I'm ridding the flock of the weaker less healthy).

The old timers swear by that method, and I think there is some real argument. With increased meds comes increased problems. Almost all meds eventually build a resistance in the microbe or parasite they are attempting to eradicate leaving the animal keeper back in the same boat only with weaker animals. I've had old time breeders tell me to cull any who can't simply exist on their own two feet. I am beginning to see the wisdom in that, obviously after good stewardship (clean feed, water, litter management).

My thoughts.
LofMc

 

[kburris]

You say you free range for about half the day. How large and what does the range area look like? Suburban lawn? Woodsy area? Pasture? Weedy/scrubby brushy area?

 

[kburris]

My hens decided the neighbors mulch was a great place. We have been in the country and now have a development going in any advise on How I can let them free range but keep them home?

 

[junebuggena]

My hens decided the neighbors mulch was a great place. We have been in the country and now have a development going in

any advise on How I can let them free range but keep them home?

Fences.