Molting Hen Serious Skin Infection

[762]

You may find the photos in the thread below helpful, they show the healing process in poultry.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wounds-pictures-of-how-they-heal.1325817/

If you are not detecting a bad odor, then you are on the right track. To me it looks like it's healing o.k. Triple antibiotic ointment on the wound would be good to use to help keep it moist. Chlorhexidine is good stuff, I use it on me and my birds. A lot of times if the wound is kept relatively clean like you are doing, antibiotics are not needed.
For a deep wound like that, it may need to be "cleaned" with chlorhexidine daily for a while. You may consider putting your solution in a spray bottle and spritzing it daily instead of irrigation since you have given a good cleaning.
The biggest thing to worry about is flies, you do not want flies to access the wounds, they lay eggs on wounds and maggots emerge. This is called Flystrike, the maggots will cause infection and a lot of damage in a very short period of time (24hrs or so).

Do the best you can. I agree, the wounds are large and they will take a while to heal. Accessing her daily is the only way to go, I agree, sometimes they take a sharp turn for the worse and then you have to make that call.

Thank you. I think though, since there is a such a large area behind the loose flap of skin (I can pull the flap and see "inside" like two inches at least), I will probably irrigate with the chlorhexine at the end of each day and then apply the ointment as deeply inside as I can. The reason I want to irrigate is that there just seems to be a lot of stuff under the loose skin I can't get out with Q-tips...I can't get a good pic). If stuff starts to fall off I don't want it to be stuck inside.

If she heals well, I'm assuming the skin that is separated from the flesh will just fall off eventually and she will lose all of those feathers?

 

[762]

You may find the photos in the thread below helpful, they show the healing process in poultry.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wounds-pictures-of-how-they-heal.1325817/

If you are not detecting a bad odor, then you are on the right track. To me it looks like it's healing o.k. Triple antibiotic ointment on the wound would be good to use to help keep it moist. Chlorhexidine is good stuff, I use it on me and my birds. A lot of times if the wound is kept relatively clean like you are doing, antibiotics are not needed.
For a deep wound like that, it may need to be "cleaned" with chlorhexidine daily for a while. You may consider putting your solution in a spray bottle and spritzing it daily instead of irrigation since you have given a good cleaning.
The biggest thing to worry about is flies, you do not want flies to access the wounds, they lay eggs on wounds and maggots emerge. This is called Flystrike, the maggots will cause infection and a lot of damage in a very short period of time (24hrs or so).

Do the best you can. I agree, the wounds are large and they will take a while to heal. Accessing her daily is the only way to go, I agree, sometimes they take a sharp turn for the worse and then you have to make that call.

You were definitely right. I'm sorry I doubted you...I guess with the Marek's nightmare we are dealing with, I assumed this was related since it seemed to coincide with the molt, and I have read that skin issues can be one of the myriad of symptoms presented with Marek's.

Have another hen now with same issue, only on one side. I checked the rest of the hens and there are thankfully no more that are injured. We were hoping to decide between the two breeds of chickens once we got to see which one suited us better (Orpington vs Wyandotte). We are trying to raise a self-sustaining flock. But Marek's wrecked that and we do not have enough hens to support two roosters. We noticed the Orpington rooster being very aggressive today, mounting the same Wyandotte hen several times in just a few minutes (I guess I should correct myself...cockerel entire flock is 6 months). The Wyandotte rooster would try to knock him off on occasion, adding to the injury, I'm sure.

I've been reading that having too many roosters in the flock can trigger them to try to mate more often. Right now, just on what we saw today, we are thinking we want to cull our beautiful black split Orpington. But I think we favor that breed. If we culled the Wyandotte, it's possible the Orpington would be much less aggressive, but there's no guarantee. The Orpingtons grow a little faster, make a better meat bird, lay more eggs, go broody more often (from what I've read), and are more heat tolerant. The Wyandottes forage a little better, though, which will be good if times are hard and feed costs rise even more. But we have more Wyandotte hens, also, although they are the ones getting injured. The Orpington hens seem to be more robust...and I am worried about the heat tolerance of the Wyandottes. We have not experienced summer with our birds yet.

I was really hoping for more time to be able to make a decision on which rooster to keep. Seems time is up. The Orpington rooster is isolated now. I was so mad at him I was going to throw him in the cone right away, but I'm glad I didn't. Need to figure this out.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Your boys are young and just now really starting to mature. Competition could be making them more aggressive with the pullets and pullets usually don't know what to do with a cockerel and end up getting the brunt of their advances at times. Hormones are a raging.

Your goal is self-sustainment, so step back and think things through.
I do agree that you need to "cull" a cockerel, but culling can mean a bunch of different things (process for food, re-home, sell, remove from the flock, etc.). So, let's be practical, at least for a period of time.
Pen/house one of the cockerels separately. Let him mature. See how the other actually does with the pullets before you get rid of either one.

Could be the Orp needs to go in the pot or vice versa, but with your goals in mind, you want (need) a backup rooster. Believe me. Several years ago, I only had one rooster and I lost him. Without a rooster, you're going to have to source chicks or hatching eggs - this takes time.
I now keep 3-4 roosters. Currently I have four, 2 are in their own separate pen, the other 2 are with their respective flock of ladies. This "hopefully" gives me a backup or two if I happen to lose a rooster for some reason.

I can understand being mad. It's upsetting to think the girls are being injured. I have had sides sliced by nails or spurs upon dismount. Filing and shaping rooster nails can help. Some hens/pullets have softer feathers that are more easily torn as well. Saddles can also help prevent some damage. I've used them in the past, but currently am not in need of them.
If you keep him, then wait, see how he interacts with the girls as he gets older, but likely he will need his own flock if he turns out to be a gentleman. Watch him close!!! If he gets out of line or hurts the girls one time after he's matured, then put him down. Been there too, I had one I thought was just immature, thought wrong and I regret giving him a few chances, hens got hurt and he almost killed one too.
You never know how one is going to turn out.

There's a lot of ways you can do this. Some keep all the girls together and just pen the boys separately. When they want fertile eggs, just put the rooster with the hens for a few hours each day for 3-4 days, you'll get fertile eggs. I've done that too.

Lastly. Me nor anyone else is there to see what exactly is going on. I have a good idea from your description, but YOU are the one that knows the situation intimately. If your GUT tells you he's not the one and you don't think he'd straighten up even when older, get rid of him and start sourcing another backup.

I'm sorry that you are having to deal with all of this. I know it can be overwhelming, frustrating and heartbreaking too. I wish you the best. Keep me posted.

 

[762]

Your boys are young and just now really starting to mature. Competition could be making them more aggressive with the pullets and pullets usually don't know what to do with a cockerel and end up getting the brunt of their advances at times. Hormones are a raging.

Your goal is self-sustainment, so step back and think things through.
I do agree that you need to "cull" a cockerel, but culling can mean a bunch of different things (process for food, re-home, sell, remove from the flock, etc.). So, let's be practical, at least for a period of time.
Pen/house one of the cockerels separately. Let him mature. See how the other actually does with the pullets before you get rid of either one.

Could be the Orp needs to go in the pot or vice versa, but with your goals in mind, you want (need) a backup rooster. Believe me. Several years ago, I only had one rooster and I lost him. Without a rooster, you're going to have to source chicks or hatching eggs - this takes time.
I now keep 3-4 roosters. Currently I have four, 2 are in their own separate pen, the other 2 are with their respective flock of ladies. This "hopefully" gives me a backup or two if I happen to lose a rooster for some reason.

I can understand being mad. It's upsetting to think the girls are being injured. I have had sides sliced by nails or spurs upon dismount. Filing and shaping rooster nails can help. Some hens/pullets have softer feathers that are more easily torn as well. Saddles can also help prevent some damage. I've used them in the past, but currently am not in need of them.
If you keep him, then wait, see how he interacts with the girls as he gets older, but likely he will need his own flock if he turns out to be a gentleman. Watch him close!!! If he gets out of line or hurts the girls one time after he's matured, then put him down. Been there too, I had one I thought was just immature, thought wrong and I regret giving him a few chances, hens got hurt and he almost killed one too.
You never know how one is going to turn out.

There's a lot of ways you can do this. Some keep all the girls together and just pen the boys separately. When they want fertile eggs, just put the rooster with the hens for a few hours each day for 3-4 days, you'll get fertile eggs. I've done that too.

Lastly. Me nor anyone else is there to see what exactly is going on. I have a good idea from your description, but YOU are the one that knows the situation intimately. If your GUT tells you he's not the one and you don't think he'd straighten up even when older, get rid of him and start sourcing another backup.

I'm sorry that you are having to deal with all of this. I know it can be overwhelming, frustrating and heartbreaking too. I wish you the best. Keep me posted.

Thank you so much. Unfortunately, rehoming isn't an option because we have Marek's in the flock, and I couldn't put anyone else through this nightmare. Our chickens free range in our back yard, which is about 3/4 acre. We have a 20x50 chickenwire pen that we created for them while they were young and the coop was under construction. I made a massive 12x12 coop, planning to have a really big flock. We had 30 chickens when Marek's struck (that, and too many cockerels) brought our flock all the way down to these 6 hens and 2 roosters! We have had a rough go at it. Anyway, the 12x12 coop is ridiculous at this point, especially since all 8 chickens smoosh together on the same roost bar.

Since I cannot allow the injured hens to be with any rooster at this point, and they were quarantined to the 20x50 pen (which has no housing...we were bringing them up to the garage each night), I decided to clip both of our roosters wings and put them in the pen for now, and let the injured hens back with the rest of the flock. Will move the old 4x8 brooder over to the pen and the roosters can sleep there at night for now (unfortunately it's not tall enough for them to have a roost bar...I make a small platform though).

What I probably will do is figure out a way to reconfigure the coop so that the roosters and hens can both sleep there at night without intermingling. I am worried though that separating the roosters will make them more aggressive once one of them is reintroduced to the hens. But we have no choice but to breed for resistance to Marek's at this point, so we definitely need to keep the roosters that have survived.

This really screws up my plans for the coop and the run I'm about to build, and our plans to open up the back fence into the woods for increased foraging opportunities. This whole adventure has not been at all what I expected. I heard so many times that chickens are relatively easy. I've been up to my ears in chicken stuff since we got them and it seems there's no end in sight!

 

[762]

@Wyorp Rock - a couple of challenges we are facing as a result of the change.

1) Because of Marek's, we need to continue to build our flock. We are hoping that the survivors are resistant, but we know we could lose more and we expect to lose at least 60% of all birds hatched. Since we separated the roosters, I decided to go ahead and put a clutch of 7 eggs in the nesting boxes yesterday morngin to see if a hen would go broody. And wouldn't you know it, I came out an hour later and a Wyandotte was on that clutch and raised her feathers and growled at me when I opened the nesting box. LOL! I thought for sure that, if it even happened, an Orpington would take to the nest. Unfortunately it was the newly-injured Wyandotte.

I guess this is ok, but she is constantly getting straw on her wound. She has allowed me to pick the straw from her wound (I have done it about 5 times now). Instead of using ointment, I've just been spraying Vetericyn because I feel like ointment will make her more prone to have debris sticking to it.

Edit: I was worried she wasn't eating or drinking but just saw her take a break, so that's good.

2) I'm worried about the mental health of my Orpington rooster (Merlin), and the mental health of the flock in general. Now that the roosters are separated, everybody is scattered around the yard. The OG wounded hen hangs near the roosters and she is not going near the coop where the feed and water is. Everyone else is kinda doing their own thing, but they used to always be together.

Last night when I put the two roosters in the 4x8 brooder together, Merlin was neurotic...running back and forth. I think that caused Larry (Wyandotte) to attack him, which caused Merlin to be more neurotic. This morning, it took Merlin awhile to come out...he was in the corner with his head down. I'm going to see if I can put a divider in there today, which should help. They are fine in the pen together (not a lot of fighting), though they both do a LOT of pacing trying to figure a way out. I would put Larry with the flock if there were no injured hens (Merlin was the offending super-horny rooster).

The OG injured hen asked to be kept in the garage again last night...too funny. Everyone else went to the coop, she went up to the house. I allowed it because it makes it easier for me to clean her wounds in the morning.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

It may take them several days to all calm down and settle into their new routine.

I don't keep roosters together at all, so can't really say how well 2 together will do. Separating them may be better so they have their own space. They will pace sometimes when a hen is near that's for sure.

Once your girls are healed up, put the best rooster back with them and see how it goes.

I agree, straw and dirt does stick to ointment so if the hen is outside, spraying with Vetericyn or Chlorhexidine is the better way to go.

Too funny that you now have a broody. Hopefully she'll be dedicated.

 

[762]

It may take them several days to all calm down and settle into their new routine.

I don't keep roosters together at all, so can't really say how well 2 together will do. Separating them may be better so they have their own space. They will pace sometimes when a hen is near that's for sure.

Once your girls are healed up, put the best rooster back with them and see how it goes.

I agree, straw and dirt does stick to ointment so if the hen is outside, spraying with Vetericyn or Chlorhexidine is the better way to go.

Too funny that you now have a broody. Hopefully she'll be dedicated.

We had to put the Orpington down. Even tho his wings were clipped he got out of his pen and brutalized the broody hen, presumably while she was in her nesting box and defending her eggs. He opened up the already injured side and opened her other side as well. It was hard because he was sweet to us but we just don’t have time right now to build him a proper separate area, having to take so much time now with tending to two very wounded hens, and all the other work that comes in spring with gardening.

One of the hens is developing an odd formation on the edge of her hanging skin. Do you think this is a blood vessel? A larvae of some kind? It has been there a couple of days but growing. If it was a larvae I would think it would have hatched by now. I’m super nervous to just cut it off.

Anyway, off to do another epsom salt soak…

 

[Finnie]

(Rewriting this post since it’s a moot point now that the Orpington rooster is culled.)

So sorry to hear that your beginnings with chickens has gone so stressfully!

I think you are on the right track, and breeding for Marek’s resistance is the way to go. Hopefully you will discover you get fewer chick deaths in the future than you think you will.

Good luck with your injured hens. For what it’s worth, I’ve had a number of hens recover just great from large skin flap wounds. (For instance, one tried to escape by jamming her head through the chain link which facilitated the dachshund to chew off her butt skin. )

 

[762]

(Rewriting this post since it’s a moot point now that the Orpington rooster is culled.)

So sorry to hear that your beginnings with chickens has gone so stressfully!

I think you are on the right track, and breeding for Marek’s resistance is the way to go. Hopefully you will discover you get fewer chick deaths in the future than you think you will.

Good luck with your injured hens. For what it’s worth, I’ve had a number of hens recover just great from large skin flap wounds. (For instance, one tried to escape by jamming her head through the chain link which facilitated the dachshund to chew off her butt skin. )

Thank you. The black split Orpington was so beautiful. I really wanted to keep him. Literally almost all of my time was being spent on chicken stuff and he was becoming a huge burden. Damn Marek’s I could have rehomed him.

The wounds are very difficult to keep clean. As long as they are not stinking or oozing are they ok? It seems like a lot of feather dust keeps getting inside, amongst other foreign material. I just pulled this nastiness out from inside the flap of skin, after the epsom salt bath. Is this normal?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm sorry about the rooster, I know it was a hard decision, but sometimes things just don't work out as planned.


The yellow tissue looks like fatty tissue to me. You detect no odors and the wound looks to be granulating from what I can see (which is good!).
No odors is Great! I'd keep up with what you are doing. I know the wounds may be in difficulty spot to clean as well. When I had a hen with a large gash under her wing, I put Chlorhexidine in a spray bottle and just sprayed it really well daily and she healed up o.k. It did take a while for her to heal. My hen always seemed to want to dust bath after I cleaned her wound, Yay


The biggest thing is to keep up with it so you don't get Flies in the wounds, if they lay eggs, then maggots will emerge within 24-72 hours (yes overnight in hot weather!). Maggots are not a good thing.