Need Frizzle Information

[Chickies-duckies-etc]

A wonderful lady has agreed to trade me a frizzle bantam cochin so I can get the frizzle gene started in my flock. I have some info on the frizzle gene, but not enough to decide the best way to go.

So what will be the best to introduce the gene? A frizzle pullet, a smooth - with the frizzle gene or a frizzle roo? I would rather not the roo as I am a bit overloaded with roos right now any way.

And is the type of frizzled feathers also a genetic trait or is that random?

 

[DiVon80]

Depends on how fast you want the gene and how wide spred you want it. A pullet will pass it on in just her babies but, if bred back to the non frizzel there it goes. A non frizzel pullet- This does not mean she even has the gene. For sure the frizzled pullet but, with just 1 frizzel you are really limiting your options. IMO Frizzeled roo, This will give you a lot more options.

 

[jimnjay]

Unless you have a Frizzled Roo to go with the smooth hen, you have a very slim chance to get any frizzled birds hatch from your hen and a smooth roo. One of the parents has to display the frizzle to produce frizzled chicks. If you breed the hen to a frizzled bird you will get a greater percentage of frizzles than if you use a smooth bird without the gene. It is possible but improbable to get a frizzle from a mating where none of the parents are frizzled birds, even though they may have one copy of the gene.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Frizzle roo can give the gene to offspring from many hens. Frizzled hen can give the gene to only her own offspring.

 

[nzpouter]

Quote:
Get the rooster, frizzle is a dominant autosomal gene, no such thing as "carrying frizzle gene" unless you're by soem miracle, received a pulled heterozygous for F and homozygous for mf.

The quality of frizzling depends on the type of feather it's expressed on, the best are on medium length wide feathers, most cochin have this.

After you start you get your F1 offsprings, please don't mate 2 frizzles together.

 

[Holly O]

A frazzle Rooster .. having two frizzle genes is best.

 

[nzpouter]

Quote:
You got that right...

ugly as sin, but produces 100% frizzle offsprings.

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

I raised frizzles and showed them for decades and the best is a frizzle rooster that can be put on females of regular feathers for the first generation
DO NOT START WITH EXTREME FRIZZLE as it has a genetics for a stringy feather that looks oily

and the frizzling of the correct bird needs to be a wide feather with the frizzle in it towards the head of the bird

extreme frizzles throw a feather quality that is too brittle and does not hold a good wide curled feather

always use the regular feather if no smooths are available in the original breeding

then in F-2 use only the frizzle male back on the smooth females provided in the first mating

thus it will give you more of the correct frizzling in the offspring of F-1 and F-2

Using three females on the original frizzle male
(smooths if you can get them) will make three lines of frizzles for F-2 and F-3 matings

ie:
female #1
Female #2
female #3

all can be mated to each others male offspring in F-1 and F-2 and F-3 etc
you mated #1 cockerel to #2 females
#2 cockerels to #3
etc mating the same females offspring to her also

the different female F-1,F-2,F-3 females can be mated to the original cock bird also

There is much to be learned about frizzles but is very easily learnt

do not put regular feathered breed type birds back into the frizzle lines as it only detracts from the ideal frizzled feather quality

if you have to use regular feathered birds just use them in the first breeding not in F-1, F-2, F-3 etc

If I have confused you please email me any questions

remember the frizzles have a modifying gene that makes them keep the genetics for frizzling

I will post the information on the modifying gene next

any questions email me

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

well having bred frizzle cochins for several decades I would not breed frizzle to frizzle

the "smooths" that come from a regular feathered cochin is the ones used in the f-1 mating
of father to daughter
mother to son

I always used the smooth females to my frizzle roosters

I showed both the female frizzles and male frizzles

The smooths are very important to the mating of frizzles

when using the frizzle to frizzle you get the extreme frizzles and will eventually breed the feathers off the birds
the feather folicles will not be in the skin

the chick will have curliest tight feathers and by the third molt not have many feathers at all
these extreme frizzles make for birds that can't stand the cold or the heat and have to be culled


the fact that if one breeds the frizzles long enough to each other you breed the feather folicles
the holes in the skin for the frizzle feather to come out. I know I tried it before I learned how to breed good frizzles
Frizzles have a modifying Gene which allows their feathers to curl forward. I had a pullet that had not more than 20 feathers on her whole body so she was a waster. I figured out quick that why take the time to feed and house birds I was going to kill 1/4 of them in the end

so went to using only smooths out of frizzles and regular frizzles. that way I got 1/2 frizzles of good quality and 1/2 smooths to breed with.

I personally liked my frizzle males for breeding to the smooth females as the smooth females had better type than the smooth males. I never liked a long legged cochin male

And I showed my female frizzles as well as the frizzle males.

Never had the brittle feathers that people speak of Just had them lose the places for feathers to grow into the body with. Folicle holes. but frizzles get a tight curled narrow wet looking feather if you breed frizzle to frizzle too long.


Here is a friend of mine from Australia that explains the modifying gene in frizzles
KazJaps from Australia

here is a Frizzle modifying gene (mf) that alters the ___expression of Frizzling (F). This might explain Glenda’s results. Put these genes together in different combinations & you’ll get various expressions of frizzling (or no frizzling). A bird may appear not to be frizzled, but may actually have the frizzle modifying gene masking ___expression (heterozygous for frizzling & homozygous for frizzle modifier: Ff+ mfmf). So the phenotype (how a bird looks) is non-frizzled, but genetically they have the frizzle gene. Glenda puts it nicely, “Smooth Frizzle”. The bird actually has one dose of the frizzle gene. Therefore offspring of 2 seemingly normal-feathered birds may produce a Frizzle (by the modifying gene becoming heterozygous or the frizzle gene becoming homozygous).

So, there are 5 main phenotypes (how a bird looks)
1: normal feathering (f+f+ Mf+Mf+ or f+f+ mfmf)
2: smooths, as Glenda calls them (Ff+ mfmf)
3: exhibition frizzles (Ff+ Mf+Mf+)
4: frizzled, less woolly than extreme (FF mfmf)
5: extreme frizzling (FF Mf+Mf+)

f+ = non-frizzled gene (wild type)
F = frizzle gene (incomplete dominant)

mf = modifying frizzle gene (recessive)
Mf+ = non-modifying frizzle gene (wild type)

FF = homozygous frizzle (2 doses of the frizzle gene)
Ff+ = heterozygous frizzle (1 dose of the frizzle gene)

mfmf = homozygous modifying frizzle (2 doses of the modifying frizzle gene)

* The modifying gene needs two copies (homozygous) for ___expression, plus the frizzle gene. The frizzle gene needs at least one copy for ___expression, plus not homozygous for modifying genes (if heterozygous for frizzling Ff+).

So, as Glenda explained, if you breed two smoothies together (Ff+ mfmf X Ff+ mfmf), there is still the possibility of getting frizzled birds (FF mfmf), about 25%. Also breeding a smoothie (Ff+ mfmf) with a normal feathered bird (wild type f+f+ Mf+Mf+) will produce frizzle (Ff+ Mf+mf), & so on ……

The frizzle modifying gene apparently is quite common in non-frizzled birds.

Well, that’s the theory anyway. This thread is a perfect example why I like to listen to people who have bred birds for decades. It is not very common for poultry geneticists to have identified a modifying gene such as this

email me with any questions